I'd call with the 76s. It's hard to come up with math to argue one way or another, but that's my intuition, for whatever it's worth."Recently I've run into the situation where I'm BB w something like A5s and the small blind, who is a uber nit, 3x's 10-12 bb. Is it correct to fold here? Or is it always a jam? Doing some math against some nitty ranges it looks like a fold. If he's raise calling off stuff like J10s, Q10s its only a slight fold. If villian is opening the top 13.4% of his range(assuming he shoves 22-55) its -1.4 bb to shove. But this does not take into account card removal. SO I'm guessing that if I'm sure that he's that tight dropping these hands is okay. Do you think that we simply can't be that sure @ these depths? What about a total nits shoving range? It seems pretty clear to me now that I should be folding some of my aces if I think his range is that tight short eff stax. around 10 bb plus. But it seems like standard is you have an Ax at 10 bb its always a snap. Is there any reason I'm missing here? Is it simply card removal? Does card runners ev incorporate card removal? I'm still just learning how to mess around with it."Yeah this is one of the grossest spots in endgame. I think 10bb you basically always have to get it in, but I've folded weak aces 12bb deep quite a few times in my experience against very low jammers/3xers.CardRunners does incorporate card removal, but the biggest reason is that we need to be sure to make a big fold, and it's hard to be that sure given that nits will spazz, too. But I think auto getting A2o in for 12bb is a mistake against a decent contigent of people.
"In Jhub's thread his 3 bet shoving range includes all premium aces as a standard. Which I think is great readless and I figure in turbos you'll have more people calling of shoves readless with weaker Ax's. In turbos where theres more of a 3 bet dynamic I still shove my premiums, but only if I think he's going to be calling off weaker ax's or wider. But if We have a dynamic where villain will flat wide even @ 16bb I think its going to be best to keep these hands in my non AI 3 bet range. Sound right?"I think you're half there. Basically the reason to make non-allin 3bets with strong Ax hands is to induce wider 4bet jams than you might get if you just jammed. A hand like A3o might jam over a perceived wide 3bet range 25bb deep but fold to a jam. That's the value in adding these hands to your non-allin 3bet range, besides the fact that you can add more bluff hands to your range if you do in equilibrium.That said, I don't think we want to be inducing that many flats. Most flatting hands - J9o, 87s, etc - play perfectly fine against a hand like AKo in position, and we'd actually prefer a fold preflop then playing the hand out of position with a holding that is exactly our perceived range. Sure, we dominate sometimes, but much less often than if we had a hand like KQ or KJ, much better hands for 3bet/calling rather than just jamming.
"Should our oop calling range differ from our 15-25bb being deeper 25-50bb? Atm I'm not really making any adjustments for deeper play. I remember Rypac telling me a long time ago, that when we're deeper, hands like K5 etc have worse expectation because of reverse implied odds. From your videos it seems that it was fairly recent where your idea about this changed and you've been flatting these hands early with good results. Would you say that now your 25 bb + oop calling range looks a lot like your 15-25 bb range?"15bb deep, yes, it should differ, but I struggle to believe that 25bb and 50bb VPIP from the big blind should be that different. When I looked at marginal flatting hands in the "don't call too tight OOP" article, the expectation was a little better deeper, but not that much. I would say by 50bb VPIP looks a lot similar to my 25bb VPIP against similar opening ranges.
66 hand is weird. I definitely agree with the turn bet - there's value to be had, he likely c/r a lot of Tx and 7x really isn't that much in his range, so we have the best hand the vast majority of the time. River is the big decision, I think. I probably sigh call it off, because he can have some J9/J8/64 type hands with his expanded flop calling range, and there aren't a lot of hands that make sense for value, but I expect to lose 70% of the time or so.
"I've always had assumptions about playing AQ and AJ vs 3 bets early but never really taked at length with anyone. Early vs a 3 bet I'm jamming AQ, and flatting AJo, jamming AJs. Does that sound right?"Yeah, I think that's fine readless in a turbo.When people 3bet polarized ranges, that's the perfect setup to incorporate a 4betting dynamic when we're deep. I don't think AQ/AK are ever good hands to flat, but hands like AA/KK become vastly better to flat against a polarized 3bettor.
Soo awesome mers!! My game is improving by leaps and bounds!! Just one hand today before I shoot of to work. Villain seemed like a decent reg. He called 43% and 3 bet 29% pf. This is the first time he 3 bet to this small size. Usually they were 3x. So it looks like he wants a call. flop seems standard to flat, turn bet for value, and then river sucks. I feel like I'm going to be behind here so much, but also I'm getting decent odds to call. I need to be sure that I'm good here at least 25% of the time, and I'm not really. The way I see it is my line looks a lot like Kx. If he has any kind of marginal sdv, pocket pairs Some kind of J8s, A8, Q8, type hand.. a worse K.. I think he's going to try to check and get a show down, so when he donks out its brutal. Should I have folded? No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1620 BBSolinero831380 Effective Stacks: 46bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)Hero is SBHero raises to 60, Solinero83 raises to 135, Hero calls 75 Flop (270, 2 players) Solinero83 bets 210, Hero calls 210 Turn (690, 2 players) Solinero83 checks, Hero bets 360, Solinero83 calls 360 River (1410, 2 players) Solinero83 goes all-in 675, Hero calls 675 Final Pot: 2760
"When people 3bet polarized ranges, that's the perfect setup to incorporate a 4betting dynamic when we're deep. I don't think AQ/AK are ever good hands to flat, but hands like AA/KK become vastly better to flat against a polarized 3bettor." So here you're talking about making non AI 4 bets. I'm guessing 30-50 bb non AI 4 bets are okay, but once we get below 30 I should start jamming. My thoughts are that as soon as I open up this 4 bet dynamic then I can start 4 bet bluffing with decent hands, where as I can't 4 bet bluff shove really wide, even over someone who 3 bets 30%, because it just won't be profitable, but having a non AI 4 bet dynamic makes these hands profitable. I need to add bluffs to my range as well so that my 4 bet range isn't transparent, and this will maximize my expectation from my premuim hands and bluffs.What kind of sizing are you using for non AI 4 bets? say vs a 2.5x 3 bet and vs a 3x 3 bet?
The river is definitely a sick feeling with the KJ, but I think you still pretty much have to call. I've seen weird stuff enough here to convince me that despite how little his line makes sense for a worse hand, we'll see enough of them."So here you're talking about making non AI 4 bets. I'm guessing 30-50 bb non AI 4 bets are okay, but once we get below 30 I should start jamming. My thoughts are that as soon as I open up this 4 bet dynamic then I can start 4 bet bluffing with decent hands, where as I can't 4 bet bluff shove really wide, even over someone who 3 bets 30%, because it just won't be profitable, but having a non AI 4 bet dynamic makes these hands profitable. I need to add bluffs to my range as well so that my 4 bet range isn't transparent, and this will maximize my expectation from my premuim hands and bluffs. What kind of sizing are you using for non AI 4 bets? say vs a 2.5x 3 bet and vs a 3x 3 bet?"Yeah, that's mostly for >30bb. 4bet size really depends on your hand. If they make it 150 it's totally fine to make a big 4bet with a hand like AK that sets up the right stacks for the flop. If we're talking about a more consistent sizing, something like from 150->345 makes it so that you can have enough bluffs in your range to be balanced. If they're really polarized it doesn't even have to be that big.
I've been thinking about lines that I don't get into very often. Specifically cc donk turn. My thoughts are that I should be thinking about it in the same terms as flop play. If villian has a high cbet freq but low turn barrel frequency I can start opening up a turn donk range. similarly if villian has a high turn barrel freq I can turn up my cc cr freq. Also I rarely use a cr cr line. I think this should be used primarily for value, if I think villian might bet his air but will fold to a turn barrel, and also when I have a strong draw and stacks get awkward, if I think its likely that villian will call a turn bet and I don't believe I can bluff river if I miss, but I think that he will bet turn when checked to I can check shove.
I was suprised to see that you didn't put 76o in your cc range. In the past I've thrown away 76 off under 20 bb, but 20 and above I'd call oop. I'd also call oop with 56o 25bb+. Would you recommend that I be folding these hands this deep? EDIT: for some reason I put 78 instead of 76o
Villian is agressive, but we haven't played too many hands. Only reads is that he overbet shoved KJ over my cbet on 8910 above 30 bb. Is this turn bet/call standard since villian is aggro? If villian is tighter I'd bet fold here. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1815 SBkorchnoy1185 Effective Stacks: 40bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)Hero is BBkorchnoy raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, korchnoy bets 80, Hero raises to 220, korchnoy calls 140 Turn (560, 2 players) Hero bets 330, korchnoy goes all-in 905, Hero calls 575 River (2370, 2 players, 1 all-in) Final Pot: 2370
wondering if the river call is okay here. Its early on First hand he cbh K7T I lead turn T and he calls. I checked 2 otr and he psb's. I fold ( I had 67) since I figure not much makes sense but a slow played 10. I'm not happy about calling off this river in this hand. I think that he's ahead a lot, but only needing 22% and not being positive of of what he had with the K7T hand ( the fact that he could be a blufftard), I figure since I cbh ott most of his value range would lead out on the A river, so I think my bet is fine, the reason I ended up calling is because I thought there may be some spazz Ax cr's that I'm beating. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1380 BBmax12151620 Effective Stacks: 46bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)Hero is SBHero raises to 60, max1215 calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) max1215 checks, Hero bets 60, max1215 calls 60 Turn (240, 2 players) max1215 checks, Hero checks River (240, 2 players) max1215 checks, Hero bets 135, max1215 raises to 330, Hero calls 195 Final Pot: 900
What about this stationy move? Its pretty early on. Villian has dbl brld a couple of times, I donk out riv because I think he may check back his Kx, when he shoves I'm not happy but I call thinking that I'm going to split often enough. Ofc a flush draw is going to be barreling that turn a lot. Is this a fold? A c/c? No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBV1ckyLucky1605 BBHero1395 Effective Stacks: 47bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)Hero is BBV1ckyLucky raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, V1ckyLucky bets 60, Hero calls 60 Turn (240, 2 players) Hero checks, V1ckyLucky bets 150, Hero calls 150 River (540, 2 players) Hero bets 300, V1ckyLucky goes all-in 1335, Hero goes all-in 825 Final Pot: 3000
against an agressive opp I think its fine to call this shove. This guy was passive, so I figure theres going to be far more Ax hands in his range here. So I folded. Do you think this should be a call? In normal circumstances I'm going to have to snap I think because most plares will 4 bet shove their AK, AQ, so we're not worried about being domingated, we're not getting effective odds to call vs a low pair, but the times he shoves w his fd's should compensate. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBBluff08151530 BBHero1470 Effective Stacks: 49bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)Hero is BBBluff0815 raises to 60, Hero raises to 180, Bluff0815 calls 120 Flop (360, 2 players) Hero bets 190, Bluff0815 goes all-in 1350, Hero folds Final Pot: 1900 Bluff0815 wins 1900 ( won +370 ) Hero lost -370
76o is reasonable to flat, I wouldn't criticize it, especially in light of the expectation from hands like 87, 79, 96, etc.Tough card with the K7. The 9 hits a good bit of his range. Still, I don't think we can fold if we check, and definitely not if we bet, so I think bet/calling is fine.Tough as well with the AJ, this situation obviously won't happen a ton. I'm fine with calling given the missed flush and straight draws he could have check/called flop with and the thin value range.I would bet/fold a little smaller with the K9 on the river, something like 235. He shouldn't have that many pure bluffs in his range and a lot of pairs, which makes smaller better. As played, we need 30% equity, and it's probably pretty borderline.With the KQ, I'm bet/calling against most. Against a passive player, I'm usually bet/folding smaller again, something like 150.
We were having a discussion today about 3xing ranges over limps readless. Nico's range looked like this A8+, K8+, Q8+, J9, J8s+, T8s+. Jan is 3xing wide with anything thats suited and connected. I've been raising tighter readless. Something like A8s+, K8s+, K9,J8s+,109s. Generally I've been pretty tight early on because I don't really want to get into a bloated pot early readless. I think its because I'm in the dark as to exactly what I'm doing, am I raising for value if I raise 87s? Probably not, is it to take initiative? Thats one reason I can think of, but I find that way too often rando's will call wide and float wide and then we're readless not knowing whether we can barrel, or whether we're facing a station. So generally I wait until I have reads until I start opening up. So whats your 3xing range vs a limp 20-25 bb readless? Are you ever shoving over a limp @ 25 bb readless with anything other then pocket pairs? What about a range 13-15 bb. Here I've pretty much followed what I think you laid out in Jhubs thread. The only thing I'm a little gray on is something like Q9s, JTs. I've still been 3xing these @ 13-15 bb vs most limpers. And shoving 12 bb and below.EDIT: I'm not even that gray on stuff like Q9s, JTs, JT. I think these are standard 3xs @13-15 bb. Just looking or comfirmation, and I'm thinking vs some villains I can go wider.
Think you missed question 109#. But it is pretty general. I'm really mosty concerned with cc donk turn lines. Are there situations where you think cc donk turn works optimally as a bluff?
"So whats your 3xing range vs a limp 20-25 bb readless? Are you ever shoving over a limp @ 25 bb readless with anything other then pocket pairs?"I've been experimenting with just jamming A6s, A8o type hands over a limp 25bb deep with decent results. I'd 3x or 3.5x A8o+ A7s+ K8o+ K7s+ Q9o+ Q8s+ J9o+ J8s+ T8s+, something like that, but I think a few hands in either direction isn't a big deal, I will say it's important to raise JTo and to not raise 97o, in my opinion. I don't have a big problem with any of those ranges, some suited junk can be good to raise, but I usually check it without additional reads about limping frequency.
"What about a range 13-15 bb. Here I've pretty much followed what I think you laid out in Jhubs thread. The only thing I'm a little gray on is something like Q9s, JTs. I've still been 3xing these @ 13-15 bb vs most limpers. And shoving 12 bb and below."I think that sounds about right.
"Think you missed question 109#. But it is pretty general. I'm really mosty concerned with cc donk turn lines. Are there situations where you think cc donk turn works optimally as a bluff?" In general, a check/raise on the flop is going to be best when this is the case, but not always. Usually when you take this line you have to follow through on the river because people give it very little respect and are calling with any piece. That's one reason why it's a really good line to take for value in spots where your opponent is checking behing a lot but would call a bet.
$15/$30 No Limit Holdem • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero$1120.00 SBmiachinkee$1880.00 Effective Stacks: 37bb Pre-Flop ($45.00, 2 players)Hero is BBmiachinkee raises to $60.00, Hero calls $30.00 Flop ($120.00, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee checks Turn ($120.00, 2 players) Hero bets $60.00, miachinkee calls $60.00 River ($240.00, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee bets $180.00, Hero foldsFinal Pot: $420.00 miachinkee wins $420.00 ( won +$120.00 ) Hero lost -$120.00 would you ever block bet this river? Do you think there are types of villians where it would be worth it?
Its pretty ridic how much of a spewtard villian is. He snapped a 4 bet pre and check shoved a dry flop w A4. would cc Bp otf and chk shove turn. He had a tendency of craising pure air, but then shutting down when called. So here I decided to cbh ott to try to rep an 8 or small pocket, or 109 maybe. when he bets river I figure he stacks off with any pair, and I'm sure there are 8's in range that spazzed otf. What do you think about the turn cbh? No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1885 BBmiachinkee1115 Effective Stacks: 28bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players)Hero is SBHero raises to 80, miachinkee calls 40 Flop (160, 2 players) miachinkee checks, Hero bets 80, miachinkee raises to 200, Hero calls 120 Turn (560, 2 players) miachinkee checks, Hero checks River (560, 2 players) miachinkee bets 400, Hero goes all-in 1605, miachinkee goes all-in 435 Final Pot: 3000
Do you like a cbet here in general? Villian is a spewtard, but even the most aggressive opponents give respect on boards like this, if I cbh I think I'm going to get barreled often. If I get cr'd its an easy lay down. I'd be more inclined to cbh w a Q. So its pretty much my standard to bet here. If I had Jx I'd cbh pretty much always. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1960 BBmiachinkee1040 Effective Stacks: 26bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players)Hero is SB Hero calls 20, miachinkee checks Flop (80, 2 players) miachinkee checks, Hero bets 40, miachinkee folds Final Pot: 120 Hero wins 120 ( won +40 ) miachinkee lost -40
I rarely make a play like this. I was surprised when I reviewed it, and really didn't know my exact reasoning. Basically this villian, despite being a spewtard, respects my cr. Same villain as above, folds to 75% of my cr. He barrels turn 44% of the time. He will cbh stuff like mp some times. so I expect this to be Ax or pure air. theres a lot of hands here that will have decent equity against me. I'm wondering if its ever worth it to fold out share equity? Maybe if I expect villian to barrel turn more often, but not often enough that I could call down profitably, then this would be an okay play? I think stack depth is pretty important consideration when making this play fwiw No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero770 SBmiachinkee2230 Effective Stacks: 19bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players)Hero is BBmiachinkee raises to 80, Hero calls 40 Flop (160, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee bets 80, Hero raises to 200, miachinkee folds Final Pot: 440 Hero wins 440 ( won +160 ) miachinkee lost -160
Sol was talking about sometimes using a cib otf to define your hand and for protection, on some flops where fillian has a high bluff frequency. DO you think this is a good play? If you do could you give some examples where you might cib with a marginal hand vs a cr otf
I have a question about a hand posted in King Kongs thread: No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$20 + $0.45 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBwheel999585 SBHero415 Effective Stacks: 21bb Blinds 10/20Pre-Flop (30, 2 players)Hero is SBHero raises to 40, wheel999 calls 20Flop (80, 2 players)wheel999 checks, Hero bets 40, wheel999 goes all-in 545, Hero goes all-in 335Turn (1000, 2 players, 2 all-in)River (1000, 2 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: 1000wheel999 shows a pair of JacksHero shows a pair of Nineswheel999 wins 1000 ( won +415 )Hero lost -415you said : " I would also call here, especially with the nut backdoor flush draw. Kicker does matter, because occasionally people spazz with middle pair and 79 can be crushed by J9, etc. I don't think bet/calling with any middle pair is standard, and would opt to check back vs a lot of opponents if I felt I can't profitably bet/call (against nits who are passive with draws, you can comfortably bet/fold). I also would fold on K94 - you're right that having fewer draws makes a big difference. If this flop was rainbow, it's much much closer, and I would tend to check behind rather than bet/call." MersennearySo is your standard to cbh a K94 flop w something like A9? I've always just cbet it. I mean I can see that there is less draws etc, so less value to be had, but our hand isn't invulnerable. Against a frequent craiser I thought that its best to bet and call a cr here, since they'll often have air. I'd still fold to a check shove on the K9x board vs most, but are we really worried about something that dramatic that often? usually we're going to face a normal cr, which I'm assuming would be fine to call. So if you think that readless I should be checking behind a flop like this is the reasoning we won't know how to continue vs a cr, and that we can extract more value on later streets if we allow him to catch up? What are other types of boards that you would cbh readless. This really surprised me tbh. It might be possible that I am cbetting too often as my standard.
One more question today, from andres thread : No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$100 + $2 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBRiverStarrs620 BBHero380 Effective Stacks: 19bb Blinds 10/20Pre-Flop (30, 2 players)Hero is BBRiverStarrs calls 10, Hero raises to 65, RiverStarrs calls 45Flop (130, 2 players)Hero checks, RiverStarrs checksTurn (130, 2 players)Hero bets 55, RiverStarrs calls 55River (240, 2 players)Hero bets 65, RiverStarrs foldsFinal Pot: 305Hero wins 305 ( won +120 )RiverStarrs lost -120"Few hands into the mach. Villain has 3bet me 2 times already, also he has limped few times. Few hands back he limp/called, called cbet, and i check-folded to his smallish bet on turn ( K58ss, 7s ). How is my line? I think this´flop hits his range a ton so im just chec/folding here. River is a blocking bet and i think i make a hard fold when he shoves or something." Andres"I definitely disagree with you that this flop hits his range a ton - I expect him to have whiffed a large amount of the time here as well, and I would probably just bet/call it off as standard. Checking likely has pretty similar expectation, though. I would bet bigger on the turn - I don't think you induce that much from that much in his range after the flop get checked through, and we might as well get max value from his pairs and set up a river jam (as played, we still have a little more than pot left on the river). I'm fine with a small bet/fold on this river." Mersenneary This really suprised me that you advocate bet calling as standard here. If we cbet this flop 80/130 and get shoved on, we need 31% equity if my math is right. I don't think this flop "hits his range a ton" but I do think it hits his range. Theres definitely a ton of Q2,K2,K4 type crap in the average randos range, plus a lot of randoms will limp Ax. Vs a reg far less obv of that in range though. Thing is, do we think he jams here with complete air enough to call it off? I mean I think 31% is a pretty high requirement no?
A7 hand is good, I think a blockbet is rarely good there.You need serious reads to jam river with the J7, it's a very non-standard play, but possible. I usually bet turn small and let him spazz.Either is fine with the Tx really, going to be pretty close in expectation.c/r with Q7 is only good if you're raise/calling and inducing, otherwise it just gets you owned by bluffs and flush draws as well as play a lot worse against Ax/Kx.Clicking it back is equilibrium play on a lot of dry boards (esp with ace or king) against frequent bluffers, I think in general it's best to flat with showdown value hands. If you do raise with marginal hands it should be to get it in, in general. So something like K5 on A52 you can 3bet flop to get it in.Big difference between K94 and J94 in terms of the number of draws he can jam over a c-bet. I usually c-bet the K94 but not the J94 for that reason if I'm bet/folding.31% isn't very much at all. We have close to that against pairs and much better against a good amount of 5x and bluffs that will be jamming.
My opinion in this thread differed from many. So far only barbra agrees with me that we should cbh ott readless. What do you think here, should we bet the turn, or cbh fold river, or cbh call river? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng/t-t-line-check-1050479/ My reasoning is that theres more hands ahead of us here in range, often 7x isn't calling two bets, there aren't really any draws other then the FD that hit. The river looks like a vbet. I doubt random's turn 7x into a bluff here, or block it that often for that matter. I pretty much just think his range that bets the river is way ahead. EDIT: So after thinking about this some I may have changed my mind. A lot of 7x/3x combo spade draws will probably peal making this a decent value bet ott. Plus A high will float flop often so we'll get value out of As.
Same villian I posted about earlier today. Again although he's lag, he respects my cr's. I know its such a great card to continue with a bet ott, but I really don't think I fold out anything. Looking back on it I think that even though he's a station theres good reason to bet turn bet river. I picked up a good amount of equity, his range is weighted towards T and 6. i doubt I ever fold him off a T, but the fact is that I could possibly fold him off of a six and there are some draws that call that I can fold out with the bet turn bet river, and so with the added equity, even though he's been quite a massive station in a lot of spots, here I should have bet. And I'll also add that I think that him respecting my cr and being a station isn't a contradiction. I simply think that he doesn't spew often with his air, or play back with his air, so he plays fit or fold vs my cr. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBmiachinkee1710 BBHero1290 Effective Stacks: 43bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)Hero is BBmiachinkee raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee bets 60, Hero raises to 150, miachinkee calls 90 Turn (420, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee checks River (420, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee checks Final Pot: 420
I'd bet the turn small with the TT. There should be a lot more 3x/7x/Ax/draws than Kx/Jx in his flop flatting range.Interesting spot with the 78. You have to make sure his c-bet frequency is high enough on this flop in order to c/r - not the case with a lot of people. If that's true, I would continue on the turn, he should have enough Tx and 6x that you can fold out with three barrels.
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1715 SBlivz1285 Effective Stacks: 32bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players)Hero is BBlivz raises to 100, Hero calls 60 Flop (200, 2 players) Hero checks, livz bets 120, Hero calls 120 Turn (440, 2 players) Hero checks, livz checks River (440, 2 players) Hero checks, livz goes all-in 1065, Hero foldsFinal Pot: 1505 livz wins 1505 ( won +220 ) Hero lost -220 Was doing a review with Archie and some interesting questions came up when discussing villian's line. With my line I think its pretty standard to call a cbet here with the intention of cfing turn. Especially because I don't think villian is going to barrel often, since his turn cbets was 0% over 310 hands. On the river I kind of thought he was bluffing here, he likes to make big plays, and is a livb fanboy obv, so he seems to suffer from fps. My hand was a no brainer so I didn't give it too much thought. I think we came to the conclusion that its not really that bad whether he has air here, or the nuts. With my line I could easily be trapping ott, but theres little to no chance I'm not betting for value otr with any decent spade after his turn cbh. I would check to induce bluffs with my worse spades though. 6s and below I'm thinking. SO with his air I might look up a decent sized bet here. The characteristic of all overbets that make them great value bets is that used correctly, when underrepped, they look FOS. So we're more inclined to look them up. So I don't mind the play, but his overbet is too big I think. So if we're in villians shoes, do you think that cbh ott with the As, or Qs is a good play? Say if I actually have a spade, livz might pick up two bets by betting turn and river, often only one from a lower spade. But if Livz cbh turn, and we bet for value , Livz raises river and we decide that the line is fos, he still makes 2 bets, but its often going to be more. Also if livz cbh here I could decide to bluff. This also got us talking about various other scenario's where a cbh ott might make us more long term.. We cbet Q2 on K62.. turn is a 2, we cbh turn. What do you think about this line?
@ 35 -50 bb as standard I'm minr shoving my pairs 22-JJ. 35-25 bb I'll limp shove 22-66, 25 and below I'm minr calling down to 55. 22-44 I'm open shoving. The 25-35 limp shove I obviously picked up from hokie. I'll adapt these ranges to opponents tendencies. If I think I can minr shove w fold equity shorter then 35 bb then I'll keep minring, and also if I think I can limp shove w fold equity below 25 bb I'll do that as well. What do you think of this strategy? Also what do you think of adding AJ to our open shove range @ 20 bb so that that small pairs aren't the only hands we're open shoving?
pocket 8's i usually 3 bet above 30 bb and 7's I usually flat as standard. I'll start 3 betting 7's if I'm getting flatted wide. @ what point do you start jamming these pairs if you think you'll be flatted by a wideish range? 30bb? or even lower? 25bb?
I don't think checking turn with a big spade has the best expectation, no. But it becomes much more reasonable when you have reads that your opponent will bet for thin value out of position rather than bluffcatch, and get curious to weird lines.Some good players are in the "limp 22-55" fanclub, but I still don't see it. Have fun letting junk hands in the pot that have great equity against you. In order to do this you absolutely need reads that your opponent raises limps with a wide range. Readless, I think it has much worse exprectation."Pocket 8's i usually 3 bet above 30 bb and 7's I usually flat as standard. I'll start 3 betting 7's if I'm getting flatted wide. @ what point do you start jamming these pairs if you think you'll be flatted by a wideish range? 30bb? or even lower? 25bb? "It depends drastically on opening range, of course. This is entirely an opening range problem. If your opponent is opening wide, jamming often has the best expectation with 77 less than 35bb deep.
I'd call with the 76s. It's hard to come up with math to argue one way or another, but that's my intuition, for whatever it's worth."Recently I've run into the situation where I'm BB w something like A5s and the small blind, who is a uber nit, 3x's 10-12 bb. Is it correct to fold here? Or is it always a jam? Doing some math against some nitty ranges it looks like a fold. If he's raise calling off stuff like J10s, Q10s its only a slight fold. If villian is opening the top 13.4% of his range(assuming he shoves 22-55) its -1.4 bb to shove. But this does not take into account card removal. SO I'm guessing that if I'm sure that he's that tight dropping these hands is okay. Do you think that we simply can't be that sure @ these depths? What about a total nits shoving range? It seems pretty clear to me now that I should be folding some of my aces if I think his range is that tight short eff stax. around 10 bb plus. But it seems like standard is you have an Ax at 10 bb its always a snap. Is there any reason I'm missing here? Is it simply card removal? Does card runners ev incorporate card removal? I'm still just learning how to mess around with it."Yeah this is one of the grossest spots in endgame. I think 10bb you basically always have to get it in, but I've folded weak aces 12bb deep quite a few times in my experience against very low jammers/3xers.CardRunners does incorporate card removal, but the biggest reason is that we need to be sure to make a big fold, and it's hard to be that sure given that nits will spazz, too. But I think auto getting A2o in for 12bb is a mistake against a decent contigent of people.
"In Jhub's thread his 3 bet shoving range includes all premium aces as a standard. Which I think is great readless and I figure in turbos you'll have more people calling of shoves readless with weaker Ax's. In turbos where theres more of a 3 bet dynamic I still shove my premiums, but only if I think he's going to be calling off weaker ax's or wider. But if We have a dynamic where villain will flat wide even @ 16bb I think its going to be best to keep these hands in my non AI 3 bet range. Sound right?"I think you're half there. Basically the reason to make non-allin 3bets with strong Ax hands is to induce wider 4bet jams than you might get if you just jammed. A hand like A3o might jam over a perceived wide 3bet range 25bb deep but fold to a jam. That's the value in adding these hands to your non-allin 3bet range, besides the fact that you can add more bluff hands to your range if you do in equilibrium.That said, I don't think we want to be inducing that many flats. Most flatting hands - J9o, 87s, etc - play perfectly fine against a hand like AKo in position, and we'd actually prefer a fold preflop then playing the hand out of position with a holding that is exactly our perceived range. Sure, we dominate sometimes, but much less often than if we had a hand like KQ or KJ, much better hands for 3bet/calling rather than just jamming.
"Should our oop calling range differ from our 15-25bb being deeper 25-50bb? Atm I'm not really making any adjustments for deeper play. I remember Rypac telling me a long time ago, that when we're deeper, hands like K5 etc have worse expectation because of reverse implied odds. From your videos it seems that it was fairly recent where your idea about this changed and you've been flatting these hands early with good results. Would you say that now your 25 bb + oop calling range looks a lot like your 15-25 bb range?"15bb deep, yes, it should differ, but I struggle to believe that 25bb and 50bb VPIP from the big blind should be that different. When I looked at marginal flatting hands in the "don't call too tight OOP" article, the expectation was a little better deeper, but not that much. I would say by 50bb VPIP looks a lot similar to my 25bb VPIP against similar opening ranges.
66 hand is weird. I definitely agree with the turn bet - there's value to be had, he likely c/r a lot of Tx and 7x really isn't that much in his range, so we have the best hand the vast majority of the time. River is the big decision, I think. I probably sigh call it off, because he can have some J9/J8/64 type hands with his expanded flop calling range, and there aren't a lot of hands that make sense for value, but I expect to lose 70% of the time or so.
"I've always had assumptions about playing AQ and AJ vs 3 bets early but never really taked at length with anyone. Early vs a 3 bet I'm jamming AQ, and flatting AJo, jamming AJs. Does that sound right?"Yeah, I think that's fine readless in a turbo.When people 3bet polarized ranges, that's the perfect setup to incorporate a 4betting dynamic when we're deep. I don't think AQ/AK are ever good hands to flat, but hands like AA/KK become vastly better to flat against a polarized 3bettor.
Soo awesome mers!! My game is improving by leaps and bounds!! Just one hand today before I shoot of to work. Villain seemed like a decent reg. He called 43% and 3 bet 29% pf. This is the first time he 3 bet to this small size. Usually they were 3x. So it looks like he wants a call. flop seems standard to flat, turn bet for value, and then river sucks. I feel like I'm going to be behind here so much, but also I'm getting decent odds to call. I need to be sure that I'm good here at least 25% of the time, and I'm not really. The way I see it is my line looks a lot like Kx. If he has any kind of marginal sdv, pocket pairs Some kind of J8s, A8, Q8, type hand.. a worse K.. I think he's going to try to check and get a show down, so when he donks out its brutal. Should I have folded? No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1620 BBSolinero831380 Effective Stacks: 46bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 60, Solinero83 raises to 135, Hero calls 75 Flop (270, 2 players) Solinero83 bets 210, Hero calls 210 Turn (690, 2 players) Solinero83 checks, Hero bets 360, Solinero83 calls 360 River (1410, 2 players) Solinero83 goes all-in 675, Hero calls 675 Final Pot: 2760
"When people 3bet polarized ranges, that's the perfect setup to incorporate a 4betting dynamic when we're deep. I don't think AQ/AK are ever good hands to flat, but hands like AA/KK become vastly better to flat against a polarized 3bettor." So here you're talking about making non AI 4 bets. I'm guessing 30-50 bb non AI 4 bets are okay, but once we get below 30 I should start jamming. My thoughts are that as soon as I open up this 4 bet dynamic then I can start 4 bet bluffing with decent hands, where as I can't 4 bet bluff shove really wide, even over someone who 3 bets 30%, because it just won't be profitable, but having a non AI 4 bet dynamic makes these hands profitable. I need to add bluffs to my range as well so that my 4 bet range isn't transparent, and this will maximize my expectation from my premuim hands and bluffs.What kind of sizing are you using for non AI 4 bets? say vs a 2.5x 3 bet and vs a 3x 3 bet?
The river is definitely a sick feeling with the KJ, but I think you still pretty much have to call. I've seen weird stuff enough here to convince me that despite how little his line makes sense for a worse hand, we'll see enough of them."So here you're talking about making non AI 4 bets. I'm guessing 30-50 bb non AI 4 bets are okay, but once we get below 30 I should start jamming. My thoughts are that as soon as I open up this 4 bet dynamic then I can start 4 bet bluffing with decent hands, where as I can't 4 bet bluff shove really wide, even over someone who 3 bets 30%, because it just won't be profitable, but having a non AI 4 bet dynamic makes these hands profitable. I need to add bluffs to my range as well so that my 4 bet range isn't transparent, and this will maximize my expectation from my premuim hands and bluffs. What kind of sizing are you using for non AI 4 bets? say vs a 2.5x 3 bet and vs a 3x 3 bet?"Yeah, that's mostly for >30bb. 4bet size really depends on your hand. If they make it 150 it's totally fine to make a big 4bet with a hand like AK that sets up the right stacks for the flop. If we're talking about a more consistent sizing, something like from 150->345 makes it so that you can have enough bluffs in your range to be balanced. If they're really polarized it doesn't even have to be that big.
I've been thinking about lines that I don't get into very often. Specifically cc donk turn. My thoughts are that I should be thinking about it in the same terms as flop play. If villian has a high cbet freq but low turn barrel frequency I can start opening up a turn donk range. similarly if villian has a high turn barrel freq I can turn up my cc cr freq. Also I rarely use a cr cr line. I think this should be used primarily for value, if I think villian might bet his air but will fold to a turn barrel, and also when I have a strong draw and stacks get awkward, if I think its likely that villian will call a turn bet and I don't believe I can bluff river if I miss, but I think that he will bet turn when checked to I can check shove.
I was suprised to see that you didn't put 76o in your cc range. In the past I've thrown away 76 off under 20 bb, but 20 and above I'd call oop. I'd also call oop with 56o 25bb+. Would you recommend that I be folding these hands this deep? EDIT: for some reason I put 78 instead of 76o
Villian is agressive, but we haven't played too many hands. Only reads is that he overbet shoved KJ over my cbet on 8910 above 30 bb. Is this turn bet/call standard since villian is aggro? If villian is tighter I'd bet fold here. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1815 SBkorchnoy1185 Effective Stacks: 40bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB korchnoy raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, korchnoy bets 80, Hero raises to 220, korchnoy calls 140 Turn (560, 2 players) Hero bets 330, korchnoy goes all-in 905, Hero calls 575 River (2370, 2 players, 1 all-in) Final Pot: 2370
wondering if the river call is okay here. Its early on First hand he cbh K7T I lead turn T and he calls. I checked 2 otr and he psb's. I fold ( I had 67) since I figure not much makes sense but a slow played 10. I'm not happy about calling off this river in this hand. I think that he's ahead a lot, but only needing 22% and not being positive of of what he had with the K7T hand ( the fact that he could be a blufftard), I figure since I cbh ott most of his value range would lead out on the A river, so I think my bet is fine, the reason I ended up calling is because I thought there may be some spazz Ax cr's that I'm beating. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1380 BBmax12151620 Effective Stacks: 46bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 60, max1215 calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) max1215 checks, Hero bets 60, max1215 calls 60 Turn (240, 2 players) max1215 checks, Hero checks River (240, 2 players) max1215 checks, Hero bets 135, max1215 raises to 330, Hero calls 195 Final Pot: 900
What about this stationy move? Its pretty early on. Villian has dbl brld a couple of times, I donk out riv because I think he may check back his Kx, when he shoves I'm not happy but I call thinking that I'm going to split often enough. Ofc a flush draw is going to be barreling that turn a lot. Is this a fold? A c/c? No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBV1ckyLucky1605 BBHero1395 Effective Stacks: 47bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB V1ckyLucky raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, V1ckyLucky bets 60, Hero calls 60 Turn (240, 2 players) Hero checks, V1ckyLucky bets 150, Hero calls 150 River (540, 2 players) Hero bets 300, V1ckyLucky goes all-in 1335, Hero goes all-in 825 Final Pot: 3000
against an agressive opp I think its fine to call this shove. This guy was passive, so I figure theres going to be far more Ax hands in his range here. So I folded. Do you think this should be a call? In normal circumstances I'm going to have to snap I think because most plares will 4 bet shove their AK, AQ, so we're not worried about being domingated, we're not getting effective odds to call vs a low pair, but the times he shoves w his fd's should compensate. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBBluff08151530 BBHero1470 Effective Stacks: 49bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB Bluff0815 raises to 60, Hero raises to 180, Bluff0815 calls 120 Flop (360, 2 players) Hero bets 190, Bluff0815 goes all-in 1350, Hero folds Final Pot: 1900 Bluff0815 wins 1900 ( won +370 ) Hero lost -370
76o is reasonable to flat, I wouldn't criticize it, especially in light of the expectation from hands like 87, 79, 96, etc.Tough card with the K7. The 9 hits a good bit of his range. Still, I don't think we can fold if we check, and definitely not if we bet, so I think bet/calling is fine.Tough as well with the AJ, this situation obviously won't happen a ton. I'm fine with calling given the missed flush and straight draws he could have check/called flop with and the thin value range.I would bet/fold a little smaller with the K9 on the river, something like 235. He shouldn't have that many pure bluffs in his range and a lot of pairs, which makes smaller better. As played, we need 30% equity, and it's probably pretty borderline.With the KQ, I'm bet/calling against most. Against a passive player, I'm usually bet/folding smaller again, something like 150.
We were having a discussion today about 3xing ranges over limps readless. Nico's range looked like this A8+, K8+, Q8+, J9, J8s+, T8s+. Jan is 3xing wide with anything thats suited and connected. I've been raising tighter readless. Something like A8s+, K8s+, K9,J8s+,109s. Generally I've been pretty tight early on because I don't really want to get into a bloated pot early readless. I think its because I'm in the dark as to exactly what I'm doing, am I raising for value if I raise 87s? Probably not, is it to take initiative? Thats one reason I can think of, but I find that way too often rando's will call wide and float wide and then we're readless not knowing whether we can barrel, or whether we're facing a station. So generally I wait until I have reads until I start opening up. So whats your 3xing range vs a limp 20-25 bb readless? Are you ever shoving over a limp @ 25 bb readless with anything other then pocket pairs? What about a range 13-15 bb. Here I've pretty much followed what I think you laid out in Jhubs thread. The only thing I'm a little gray on is something like Q9s, JTs. I've still been 3xing these @ 13-15 bb vs most limpers. And shoving 12 bb and below.EDIT: I'm not even that gray on stuff like Q9s, JTs, JT. I think these are standard 3xs @13-15 bb. Just looking or comfirmation, and I'm thinking vs some villains I can go wider.
Think you missed question 109#. But it is pretty general. I'm really mosty concerned with cc donk turn lines. Are there situations where you think cc donk turn works optimally as a bluff?
"So whats your 3xing range vs a limp 20-25 bb readless? Are you ever shoving over a limp @ 25 bb readless with anything other then pocket pairs?"I've been experimenting with just jamming A6s, A8o type hands over a limp 25bb deep with decent results. I'd 3x or 3.5x A8o+ A7s+ K8o+ K7s+ Q9o+ Q8s+ J9o+ J8s+ T8s+, something like that, but I think a few hands in either direction isn't a big deal, I will say it's important to raise JTo and to not raise 97o, in my opinion. I don't have a big problem with any of those ranges, some suited junk can be good to raise, but I usually check it without additional reads about limping frequency.
"What about a range 13-15 bb. Here I've pretty much followed what I think you laid out in Jhubs thread. The only thing I'm a little gray on is something like Q9s, JTs. I've still been 3xing these @ 13-15 bb vs most limpers. And shoving 12 bb and below."I think that sounds about right.
"Think you missed question 109#. But it is pretty general. I'm really mosty concerned with cc donk turn lines. Are there situations where you think cc donk turn works optimally as a bluff?" In general, a check/raise on the flop is going to be best when this is the case, but not always. Usually when you take this line you have to follow through on the river because people give it very little respect and are calling with any piece. That's one reason why it's a really good line to take for value in spots where your opponent is checking behing a lot but would call a bet.
$15/$30 No Limit Holdem • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero$1120.00 SBmiachinkee$1880.00 Effective Stacks: 37bb Pre-Flop ($45.00, 2 players)Hero is BB miachinkee raises to $60.00, Hero calls $30.00 Flop ($120.00, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee checks Turn ($120.00, 2 players) Hero bets $60.00, miachinkee calls $60.00 River ($240.00, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee bets $180.00, Hero foldsFinal Pot: $420.00 miachinkee wins $420.00 ( won +$120.00 ) Hero lost -$120.00 would you ever block bet this river? Do you think there are types of villians where it would be worth it?
Its pretty ridic how much of a spewtard villian is. He snapped a 4 bet pre and check shoved a dry flop w A4. would cc Bp otf and chk shove turn. He had a tendency of craising pure air, but then shutting down when called. So here I decided to cbh ott to try to rep an 8 or small pocket, or 109 maybe. when he bets river I figure he stacks off with any pair, and I'm sure there are 8's in range that spazzed otf. What do you think about the turn cbh? No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1885 BBmiachinkee1115 Effective Stacks: 28bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 80, miachinkee calls 40 Flop (160, 2 players) miachinkee checks, Hero bets 80, miachinkee raises to 200, Hero calls 120 Turn (560, 2 players) miachinkee checks, Hero checks River (560, 2 players) miachinkee bets 400, Hero goes all-in 1605, miachinkee goes all-in 435 Final Pot: 3000
Do you like a cbet here in general? Villian is a spewtard, but even the most aggressive opponents give respect on boards like this, if I cbh I think I'm going to get barreled often. If I get cr'd its an easy lay down. I'd be more inclined to cbh w a Q. So its pretty much my standard to bet here. If I had Jx I'd cbh pretty much always. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1960 BBmiachinkee1040 Effective Stacks: 26bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero calls 20, miachinkee checks Flop (80, 2 players) miachinkee checks, Hero bets 40, miachinkee folds Final Pot: 120 Hero wins 120 ( won +40 ) miachinkee lost -40
I rarely make a play like this. I was surprised when I reviewed it, and really didn't know my exact reasoning. Basically this villian, despite being a spewtard, respects my cr. Same villain as above, folds to 75% of my cr. He barrels turn 44% of the time. He will cbh stuff like mp some times. so I expect this to be Ax or pure air. theres a lot of hands here that will have decent equity against me. I'm wondering if its ever worth it to fold out share equity? Maybe if I expect villian to barrel turn more often, but not often enough that I could call down profitably, then this would be an okay play? I think stack depth is pretty important consideration when making this play fwiw No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero770 SBmiachinkee2230 Effective Stacks: 19bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players) Hero is BB miachinkee raises to 80, Hero calls 40 Flop (160, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee bets 80, Hero raises to 200, miachinkee folds Final Pot: 440 Hero wins 440 ( won +160 ) miachinkee lost -160
Sol was talking about sometimes using a cib otf to define your hand and for protection, on some flops where fillian has a high bluff frequency. DO you think this is a good play? If you do could you give some examples where you might cib with a marginal hand vs a cr otf
I have a question about a hand posted in King Kongs thread: No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$20 + $0.45 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBwheel999585 SBHero415 Effective Stacks: 21bb Blinds 10/20Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, wheel999 calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) wheel999 checks, Hero bets 40, wheel999 goes all-in 545, Hero goes all-in 335 Turn (1000, 2 players, 2 all-in) River (1000, 2 players, 2 all-in) Final Pot: 1000 wheel999 shows a pair of Jacks Hero shows a pair of Nines wheel999 wins 1000 ( won +415 ) Hero lost -415 you said : " I would also call here, especially with the nut backdoor flush draw. Kicker does matter, because occasionally people spazz with middle pair and 79 can be crushed by J9, etc. I don't think bet/calling with any middle pair is standard, and would opt to check back vs a lot of opponents if I felt I can't profitably bet/call (against nits who are passive with draws, you can comfortably bet/fold). I also would fold on K94 - you're right that having fewer draws makes a big difference. If this flop was rainbow, it's much much closer, and I would tend to check behind rather than bet/call." MersennearySo is your standard to cbh a K94 flop w something like A9? I've always just cbet it. I mean I can see that there is less draws etc, so less value to be had, but our hand isn't invulnerable. Against a frequent craiser I thought that its best to bet and call a cr here, since they'll often have air. I'd still fold to a check shove on the K9x board vs most, but are we really worried about something that dramatic that often? usually we're going to face a normal cr, which I'm assuming would be fine to call. So if you think that readless I should be checking behind a flop like this is the reasoning we won't know how to continue vs a cr, and that we can extract more value on later streets if we allow him to catch up? What are other types of boards that you would cbh readless. This really surprised me tbh. It might be possible that I am cbetting too often as my standard.
One more question today, from andres thread : No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$100 + $2 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBRiverStarrs620 BBHero380 Effective Stacks: 19bb Blinds 10/20Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB RiverStarrs calls 10, Hero raises to 65, RiverStarrs calls 45 Flop (130, 2 players) Hero checks, RiverStarrs checks Turn (130, 2 players) Hero bets 55, RiverStarrs calls 55 River (240, 2 players) Hero bets 65, RiverStarrs folds Final Pot: 305 Hero wins 305 ( won +120 ) RiverStarrs lost -120 "Few hands into the mach. Villain has 3bet me 2 times already, also he has limped few times. Few hands back he limp/called, called cbet, and i check-folded to his smallish bet on turn ( K58ss, 7s ). How is my line? I think this´flop hits his range a ton so im just chec/folding here. River is a blocking bet and i think i make a hard fold when he shoves or something." Andres"I definitely disagree with you that this flop hits his range a ton - I expect him to have whiffed a large amount of the time here as well, and I would probably just bet/call it off as standard. Checking likely has pretty similar expectation, though. I would bet bigger on the turn - I don't think you induce that much from that much in his range after the flop get checked through, and we might as well get max value from his pairs and set up a river jam (as played, we still have a little more than pot left on the river). I'm fine with a small bet/fold on this river." Mersenneary This really suprised me that you advocate bet calling as standard here. If we cbet this flop 80/130 and get shoved on, we need 31% equity if my math is right. I don't think this flop "hits his range a ton" but I do think it hits his range. Theres definitely a ton of Q2,K2,K4 type crap in the average randos range, plus a lot of randoms will limp Ax. Vs a reg far less obv of that in range though. Thing is, do we think he jams here with complete air enough to call it off? I mean I think 31% is a pretty high requirement no?
A7 hand is good, I think a blockbet is rarely good there.You need serious reads to jam river with the J7, it's a very non-standard play, but possible. I usually bet turn small and let him spazz.Either is fine with the Tx really, going to be pretty close in expectation.c/r with Q7 is only good if you're raise/calling and inducing, otherwise it just gets you owned by bluffs and flush draws as well as play a lot worse against Ax/Kx.Clicking it back is equilibrium play on a lot of dry boards (esp with ace or king) against frequent bluffers, I think in general it's best to flat with showdown value hands. If you do raise with marginal hands it should be to get it in, in general. So something like K5 on A52 you can 3bet flop to get it in.Big difference between K94 and J94 in terms of the number of draws he can jam over a c-bet. I usually c-bet the K94 but not the J94 for that reason if I'm bet/folding.31% isn't very much at all. We have close to that against pairs and much better against a good amount of 5x and bluffs that will be jamming.
My opinion in this thread differed from many. So far only barbra agrees with me that we should cbh ott readless. What do you think here, should we bet the turn, or cbh fold river, or cbh call river? http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/185/heads-up-sng/t-t-line-check-1050479/ My reasoning is that theres more hands ahead of us here in range, often 7x isn't calling two bets, there aren't really any draws other then the FD that hit. The river looks like a vbet. I doubt random's turn 7x into a bluff here, or block it that often for that matter. I pretty much just think his range that bets the river is way ahead. EDIT: So after thinking about this some I may have changed my mind. A lot of 7x/3x combo spade draws will probably peal making this a decent value bet ott. Plus A high will float flop often so we'll get value out of As.
Same villian I posted about earlier today. Again although he's lag, he respects my cr's. I know its such a great card to continue with a bet ott, but I really don't think I fold out anything. Looking back on it I think that even though he's a station theres good reason to bet turn bet river. I picked up a good amount of equity, his range is weighted towards T and 6. i doubt I ever fold him off a T, but the fact is that I could possibly fold him off of a six and there are some draws that call that I can fold out with the bet turn bet river, and so with the added equity, even though he's been quite a massive station in a lot of spots, here I should have bet. And I'll also add that I think that him respecting my cr and being a station isn't a contradiction. I simply think that he doesn't spew often with his air, or play back with his air, so he plays fit or fold vs my cr. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBmiachinkee1710 BBHero1290 Effective Stacks: 43bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB miachinkee raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee bets 60, Hero raises to 150, miachinkee calls 90 Turn (420, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee checks River (420, 2 players) Hero checks, miachinkee checks Final Pot: 420
I'd bet the turn small with the TT. There should be a lot more 3x/7x/Ax/draws than Kx/Jx in his flop flatting range.Interesting spot with the 78. You have to make sure his c-bet frequency is high enough on this flop in order to c/r - not the case with a lot of people. If that's true, I would continue on the turn, he should have enough Tx and 6x that you can fold out with three barrels.
No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$55 + $2.50 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1715 SBlivz1285 Effective Stacks: 32bb Blinds 20/40 Pre-Flop (60, 2 players)Hero is BB livz raises to 100, Hero calls 60 Flop (200, 2 players) Hero checks, livz bets 120, Hero calls 120 Turn (440, 2 players) Hero checks, livz checks River (440, 2 players) Hero checks, livz goes all-in 1065, Hero foldsFinal Pot: 1505 livz wins 1505 ( won +220 ) Hero lost -220 Was doing a review with Archie and some interesting questions came up when discussing villian's line. With my line I think its pretty standard to call a cbet here with the intention of cfing turn. Especially because I don't think villian is going to barrel often, since his turn cbets was 0% over 310 hands. On the river I kind of thought he was bluffing here, he likes to make big plays, and is a livb fanboy obv, so he seems to suffer from fps. My hand was a no brainer so I didn't give it too much thought. I think we came to the conclusion that its not really that bad whether he has air here, or the nuts. With my line I could easily be trapping ott, but theres little to no chance I'm not betting for value otr with any decent spade after his turn cbh. I would check to induce bluffs with my worse spades though. 6s and below I'm thinking. SO with his air I might look up a decent sized bet here. The characteristic of all overbets that make them great value bets is that used correctly, when underrepped, they look FOS. So we're more inclined to look them up. So I don't mind the play, but his overbet is too big I think. So if we're in villians shoes, do you think that cbh ott with the As, or Qs is a good play? Say if I actually have a spade, livz might pick up two bets by betting turn and river, often only one from a lower spade. But if Livz cbh turn, and we bet for value , Livz raises river and we decide that the line is fos, he still makes 2 bets, but its often going to be more. Also if livz cbh here I could decide to bluff. This also got us talking about various other scenario's where a cbh ott might make us more long term.. We cbet Q2 on K62.. turn is a 2, we cbh turn. What do you think about this line?
@ 35 -50 bb as standard I'm minr shoving my pairs 22-JJ. 35-25 bb I'll limp shove 22-66, 25 and below I'm minr calling down to 55. 22-44 I'm open shoving. The 25-35 limp shove I obviously picked up from hokie. I'll adapt these ranges to opponents tendencies. If I think I can minr shove w fold equity shorter then 35 bb then I'll keep minring, and also if I think I can limp shove w fold equity below 25 bb I'll do that as well. What do you think of this strategy? Also what do you think of adding AJ to our open shove range @ 20 bb so that that small pairs aren't the only hands we're open shoving?
pocket 8's i usually 3 bet above 30 bb and 7's I usually flat as standard. I'll start 3 betting 7's if I'm getting flatted wide. @ what point do you start jamming these pairs if you think you'll be flatted by a wideish range? 30bb? or even lower? 25bb?
I don't think checking turn with a big spade has the best expectation, no. But it becomes much more reasonable when you have reads that your opponent will bet for thin value out of position rather than bluffcatch, and get curious to weird lines.Some good players are in the "limp 22-55" fanclub, but I still don't see it. Have fun letting junk hands in the pot that have great equity against you. In order to do this you absolutely need reads that your opponent raises limps with a wide range. Readless, I think it has much worse exprectation."Pocket 8's i usually 3 bet above 30 bb and 7's I usually flat as standard. I'll start 3 betting 7's if I'm getting flatted wide. @ what point do you start jamming these pairs if you think you'll be flatted by a wideish range? 30bb? or even lower? 25bb? "It depends drastically on opening range, of course. This is entirely an opening range problem. If your opponent is opening wide, jamming often has the best expectation with 77 less than 35bb deep.
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