''These are the type of theoretical questions I'm always pretty skeptical of, I'm not sure I've played an opponent who folds way more often to 120 than 100. But in general, yes :p''I'd say it's pretty rare to find an opponents who responds the exact same way vs my 3b to 100 and 3b to 120. But maybe that's because I 3b to 120 way less often than to 100 so when I do they give me more credit. But ok so skip the bluffs and widen my 3b for value range vs a loose 3b caller. ''Alright which 80% of hands is it exactly?" ''Ask something specific here about which hands you want to compare.''What I meant was which 80% of hands do you use, is it any suited and J4o+,T6o+,95o+ and that sort of stuff? "So a pretty standard Reg flats 40% and 3bets 20%, how much % would you open from the SB at 20-25bb?" ''Depends how he responds to limps.''Oky he raises 35% vs limps. ''If they don't adjust their 3bet jamming range against your tighter opening range you'll be making a lot of money.''In the example I gave how tight would your min raising range be? '' In general though if someone has a wide openlimping range that is somewhat balanced, you just happily check behind a lot and thank your opponent for giving you a lot of free flops.''Ye assuming he has a balanced limping range, I'd guess you'd still shove your Ax, low PP's and raise your monsters for value right? ''Again, frame your question with specific examples/comparisons.''For example I don't know if I'd should cbet a KJ5 two spades flop, or a 984 two clubs flop vs a standard opponent. But ye I guess theres no rule of thumb and that it's better to post some specific hands and situations to get a feel for it. Say you have K9o on a 987 two spades would you still cbet half pot as a standard or would you bet more cause it's sucha scary flop?
I got problems with my pc so I thought about hijacking threads and asking questions... … so of my questions will be about other FT members or about your replies to them, other will be totally mine. Let's review Champaz's thread Normal: User Question Italic: your reply Bold: My question 1http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-18589 Q:Anyhow about my contbet size in the 3bet pot, when is it correct to bet half, potsize, less than half and so on. Right now I have just gotten into the habbit of betting 40% of pot which isn't an amazing reason to do anything. A: h2olga actually has a really good rule of thumb in his most recent video - bet about 1/4 (or a little less) of the remaining effective stack size. So if there's 600 in the pot with 1200 behind, we bet around 250-300, etcMQ: I didn’t watch that video since I don’t have a premium membership at husng.com. Btw I’m interested about this rule… I think this betsizing is good whether we got value or bluff, if we got value we are betting a size allow some room for villain to spazz out, if we got a non-value hand we aren’t committing ourselves to the pot, so we are increasing the EV of our bluff. For me this is the main reasons about this bet… are there others reasons?2MQ: 10bb deep, at 50/100 blinds, we are in the SB and a huge fish is on the BB. Now, many times I’m hearing “You can’t r/f 10bb deep” … I’m understand the main reason (we are risking a lot due to the low eff stack) however, I don’t think openshoving or folding are the 2 choices here, r/f is still good imo. Let’s plug in some numbers… 50/100Hero: 1000Villain: 1000Hero raises to 200 with junk, Villain shovesTotal pot 1300, to call 850, 850/2150= 40% , so we are BE if we have 40% equityWe know Villain is gonna to shove or fold and he’s not capable of shoving air or mid-holdings but only very good hands which we have less than 40% equity… so we can still r/f imo.r/f > shove because we are risking less than our entire stack to achieve our goal (get the blinds). So since Villain is gonna fold if he got a junk/mid hand and he’s gonna call when he has us crushed… r/f is better than a shove.Also, we are risking 150 to win 150, if Villain is gonna fold more than 50% we are printing money while we are avoid his strong handsDoes it makes sense or there is some flaw behind my logic?3MQ: with low eff stacks like (15-10bb) I’m limp/stab a lot against very passive fit-or-fold guys that doesn’t play back to me often. I found out that many times a 1/4 pot bet can take down the pot pretty easily, so against Villains who are folding a ton vs my cbets (let’s say 40%+) I’m playing close to 100% of my buttons, limping my very top and bottom range and limp the rest… I don’t know if it is correct because mainly I see players talk about preflop tendencies while they didn’t care much about postflop tendencies (at this stage). Yeah, players should 3bet or fold at 10bb deep, but most fishes don’t… So imo we should take into consideration postflop tendencies since Villain is going to flat sometimes (or many times,it depends from the fish J )4 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19670 Q:You are playing a winning reg who 3bets to t90 and that stuff with a very big 3bet procent, say about 35%, how should I adjust in regards to what hands to limp, minra and 4b shove? A:Jam any ace, any pair. Tighten up your opening range preflop, have a lot less junk in it (just openfold) until he adjusts to that. It's a good strategy against a 100% minraiser, a terrible strategy against a 55% minraiser. Those are the biggest two adjustments.MQ: a. Jam any ace nmw the effective stack is?b. 35% 3bet is huge, it’s good vs a 100% minraiser because he gotta fold a large part of his range, and it is bad vs a 55% opener because his range is stronger and it contains more hands capable to flat and more hand that he could 4bet. My question is about the 4bet, it depends on the eff stack obv, but let’s say we are 60 bb deep, we have room to make a very small 4bet and obv call his 5betshove; since he’s 3bet 35% he can’t have many strong holding in his range so, if we shove he can’t call often, but if we 4bet small he could 5betshove wide while he’s crushed. So I think 4bet small with TT+ is optimal while I’m not sure with AQ+ 5. (same previous question with an extra detail) http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19772 Q:You are playing a winning reg who 3bets to t90 and that stuff with a very big 3bet procent, say about 35%, how should I adjust in regards to what hands to limp, minra and 4b shove? A: Jam any ace, any pair. Tighten up your opening range preflop, have a lot less junk in it (just openfold) until he adjusts to that. It's a good strategy against a 100% minraiser, a terrible strategy against a 55% minraiser. Those are the biggest two adjustments.'' Ok all other conditions is the same but to make matters more complicated he folds 49-50% preflop, that makes min raising profitable with trash so now what do you do? :PRaise a good chunk of your trash. Don't feel bad when you get jammed on. Profit.MQ: what about minraising 100%? If he starts to play more than 50% oop we will adjust but for now, why not minraise 100%? People who 3bet so much aren’t competent and emotional imo, minraising 100% make them frustrated and they play back with marginal holdings when we have a monster (like a said in the previous question). So at least we are BEing and at the same time our Villain could get angry :p6 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19772 Q: Today I played vs an opponent who flatts 60% 3bet 10%, only folding 27% to cbets cr around 30%, when you ch instead of cbetting he mostly attacks on turn but not always, how would you adjust to this both preflop and postflop? A: Against this type of opponent you want to tighten up your playing range. You can consider limping and stabbing a lot with your 96o type stuff - People with this low of a 3bet % usually aren't very agressive against limps, and you can have a raising range preflop that's mostly stronger hands and a limping range that's mostly weaker hands, and it's fine. Postflop you can pass up on some more marginal c-bets, bet turn for value (and for bluff) more often because range is weaker.MQ: Regarding cbets, I can’t thinking clearly about checking or betting our value hands… I understand that we should lower our cbet frequency since Villain isn’t going to fold often but…a. If you have a strong hand like top pair, do you advocate betting the flop or check since Villain will fires out a ton of turns?b. Should we bet and double barrel our mid holdings? Most of the times we got the best hand, and maybe the turn gives us FE in case Villain has total air, so we get value from very marginal holdings and we fold out complete air…c. So my plan should be checking back most of my strong hands on the flop and let him bet the turn and hopefully the river, while bet and double barrel my mid holdings… does make sense?7http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19929 Q: see the hand in the link above A: Definitely not fun. Given that you have some reads on your opponent my decision on turn would be based 100% on an estimation of the size of his balls. Some people would always give up here with their air. I think your line is probably best against most, but so many people will check Qx on this turn (or at least not make it half pot). So I'm torn. If we had TT I'd probably not c-bet this flop given that K or J (and mostly just a jack) are the only bad turn cards and we're unlikely to get much value except by checking. I definitely like the smaller c-bet size, though.MB: Don’t you think the K on the turn is a strange card for him to continue betting? He’s c/ring 25% which is a lot, so this is a perfect flop for him to c/r imo. Most of the times I 3bet AI this flop, because I want to make things little easier, but I don’t think it is optimal. You said a flat could be optimal against most opponents but a Villain who is c/ring 25% isn’t std imo, so imo we should flat against most of opponents while vs aggros like this we can easily 3bet AI avoiding difficulties on future streets, imo Villain has a lot of air here… but I don’t know…If the turn comes an 8 or worse what’s your plan against a Villain bet? And if the turn would be a J?8http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19932 Q: see link above A: Jamming over limps 12bb deep: I agree middling offsuit hands are often great to check back because they play well postflop. Q4s is a great example of a light hand to jam - suited stuff with high card power in general is decent enough, plus king-rag, with the lowest kicker depending on limping frequency (there are some I'd jam over with K2o and some I'm checking behind K8o. As a default, I'd jam K5o over a limp 12bb deep).MQ: I often consider postflop opponent tendencies even at the low eff stacks. I don’t know if I’m result oriented but, I got pissed off when Villain l/c KTo and I shoved K2o L . If he’s passive postflop we could lead (depending on the flop) or bet if he missed the stab… Is this suboptimal?9 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19998Q: see above link A: Q5ss hand...hmm. I think I would usually just flat flop readless - there are a LOT of hands you really don't want to run into (better 5x, queen high/king high/ace high flush draws, and then obviously two pair/straight/set type hands. Then again, that flop sizing is unlikely for two pair/sets, and is a bet/fold sizing from a lot of people (or at the very least, not having vulnerable made hands that are strong enough to call a jam in the range). If I did raise, I'd probably make it bigger, because people will use this sizing with weaker pairs/ace high type hands that can call a small size.MQ: If Villain is going to b/f often 100 would be ok imo, maybe 90 is good too… if he calls he could have a ton of weak hands that are very vulnerable to our barrels on the turn and river… c/c is what I generally do but I think a lot of times about this spot… vs a thinking player we are def losing money in the long run by c/c imo, since he recognize we have draws many times or weak pairs that we’ll fold on the later streets if we aren’t improving. I think c/c is better vs a total fish; what do you think?10http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest?page=1#comment-20002 Q: Person A: He folds 30% of BB's calls 40% 3bets 30%. He only folds to 35% of cbets flatts most hands and CR's around 25% it's hard to get him to fold when you double barrel but sometimes he does. A: Against player A, he's 3betting way too much, and while there's value to raising JTo stuff more often when your opponent is calling too wide (as he is), I think the extra 3bet% means that it's best to limp your middle range and have a very strong opening range - down to about 30% or so, even, and really take advantage of his 3betting range. How much you can limp depends on his frequencies going after those (and to what sizing) as well. His ratio is way out of whack in his 3betting range whcih means we need to take advantage with a tighter opening range, more full of hands that can correctly call a 3bet. You can also take advantage by 4bet jamming wider and raise/calling wider depending on his 3betting size.MQ: Don’t you consider his postflop tendencies?11 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest?page=1#comment-20906Q: What ranges do you 3bet and flatt call from BB against a reg that opens 90%, 20-25bb? Same question but the reg opens 80%? A reg who opens 80% at 16-21bb? A reg who opens 65% and limps 10% 10-12bb and 13-15bb? A: The honest reason why is that I've never really thought of it in this way, e.g. the difference between 80% and 90% and exact 3bet bluff ranges. A lot of it is also just going and using software and plugging in ranges, which is something I can teach you how to do if you'd like. MQ: Can you teach me also? Or teach to everyone in an article? Obv more questions are coming ;)
Im using pokertracker and a bunch of filters to work out how many times i face particular actions at 25bb eff preflop, given that this is a good filter for hands in the early stages of a ST do u think it is appropriate to consider the result a good indication of the avg population?If yes do you think the method would become redundant at shallower depths because after a few hands we consider avg population vs myself and my tendancies as opposed to avg population where we think they are only considering their hand and their eff stack.
"What I meant was which 80% of hands do you use, is it any suited and J4o+,T6o+,95o+ and that sort of stuff?"Yeah I understood what you meant :) I was trying to guide you to ask better questions, which is one area you need work on. You're a very advanced player but asking the question "which flops should I c-bet?" is just not going to get you the kind of information that you want. As you get more and more skilled you should be learning how to ask more informed and more specific questions rather than just asking for basic percentages and generalities. So I hinted here that it's going to be more productive for you to ask a more specific question. For example, you could ask which hand are you more likely to open first hand in a superturbo, T5o or 23s? The answer here is definitely T5o in my view. Asking "which 80% do you open" also requires a much longer answer time for me, going through stove and plucking out all the hands to come up with an exact 80% even though I understand that while I do this there is plenty of wiggle room on "is this a 25th percentile or a 15th percentile type hand" questions rendering a lot of that exercise useless.I'm pretty sure I'm clear here that I'm definitely not annoyed at all, in fact the opposite, this is a good opportunity to teach something! :)T4o-T5o, 84o+, 75o+, 65o I'm definitely more lkely to open than the bottom suited junk.
""So a pretty standard Reg flats 40% and 3bets 20%, how much % would you open from the SB at 20-25bb?" ''Depends how he responds to limps.'' Oky he raises 35% vs limps."I think there are a lot of different routes here you can take in terms of your limping range vs raising range, there are just too many more tendencies in play to give blanket answers here that wouldn't get laughed at by other high stakes players (one question I ask myself sometimes is "what would R-Q/H2O think of the post I'm about to write?"). Apologies if that's an unsatisfying answer. I'm likely not raising 100% though, but certainly still playing more than 70% of hands.
"Ye assuming he has a balanced limping range, I'd guess you'd still shove your Ax, low PP's and raise your monsters for value right?"Yes."For example I don't know if I'd should cbet a KJ5 two spades flop, or a 984 two clubs flop vs a standard opponent. But ye I guess theres no rule of thumb and that it's better to post some specific hands and situations to get a feel for it. Say you have K9o on a 987 two spades would you still cbet half pot as a standard or would you bet more cause it's sucha scary flop?"OK good specifics. The KJ5ss and 984ss hands depend on your holdings, but in general, they're not quite wet enough to not c-bet with your weaker hands. They're good candidates to check back against most opponents with hands with showdown value though.
ServerB,Can you pick the 3-4 most important questions of those you want answered? I don't like putting limits, but I think it goes against the spirit of "mersenneary will be here from time to time, mostly on the weekends, to answer some questions that are best suited to him" for that many. To answer those questions well it would take me well over an hour, maybe two.Definitely don't mean to be stingy with my time - just trying to stay consistent with expectations. I'm half inclined to just go the extra mile ad answer it all but then it's really not fair if I don't do that for everyone and suddenly I have 20 hours of private coaching a month on my hands.
ServerB,Can you pick the 3-4 most important questions of those you want answered? I don't like putting limits, but I think it goes against the spirit of "mersenneary will be here from time to time, mostly on the weekends, to answer some questions that are best suited to him" for that many. To answer those questions well it would take me well over an hour, maybe two.Definitely don't mean to be stingy with my time - just trying to stay consistent with expectations. I'm half inclined to just go the extra mile ad answer it all but then it's really not fair if I don't do that for everyone and suddenly I have 20 hours of private coaching a month on my hands.+Yep def, I didn't want to abuse your time... I missed the "mers will be there from time to time"anyway Qs 1 to 4 ...
"MQ: I didn’t watch that video since I don’t have a premium membership at husng.com. Btw I’m interested about this rule… I think this betsizing is good whether we got value or bluff, if we got value we are betting a size allow some room for villain to spazz out, if we got a non-value hand we aren’t committing ourselves to the pot, so we are increasing the EV of our bluff. For me this is the main reasons about this bet… are there others reasons?" The general idea in these spots is that when you're making this bet, your range is stronger than your opponent's. Generally, especially when the 1/4-of-what's-left is on the smaller side with relation to the pot, it's also on fairly dry boards. 1/4 of what's left is really all that's needed to put your opponent to the test. You're not risking losing out on value when you have a value hand, and you're only making your bluffs cheaper. There are plenty of situations like this where you're still getting full value from a smaller bet because of streets left/pot commital but also making your bluff cheaper. It's not so much about getting your opponent to spazz out because that's worse for your bluff hands, it's mostly about those situations where a smaller bet is just the same thing when you have a value hand and better for you when you have a bluff.
You absolutely can raise/fold 10bb deep. I've made a lot against opponents who assume my minraising range at this stack depth is highly weighted to induces and are scared to play against it and have terrible equity. I've shown very good results minraising weaker hands 10bb deep but you have to pick your opponents.
Against tight/passive opponents I think it's definitely best to play 100% of hands from the button even 10-15bb deep, either by a minraise or a limp depending on their tendencies. I've seen people apply this strategy to the wrong sorts of opponents though, so you have to stay disciplined about thinking about whether you're applying the strategy against the right sort of opponent.
Q:You are playing a winning reg who 3bets to t90 and that stuff with a very big 3bet procent, say about 35%, how should I adjust in regards to what hands to limp, minra and 4b shove? A:Jam any ace, any pair. Tighten up your opening range preflop, have a lot less junk in it (just openfold) until he adjusts to that. It's a good strategy against a 100% minraiser, a terrible strategy against a 55% minraiser. Those are the biggest two adjustments.MQ: a. Jam any ace nmw the effective stack is?"The question was about STs I believe, but yes, any superturbo stack depth you can jam any ace over a true 35% 3bet rate. You just again have to be careful as that becomes a very -EV play once your opponent adapts his 3betting range to your aggression or just wasn't 3betting as much as you thought he was in the first place."b. 35% 3bet is huge, it’s good vs a 100% minraiser because he gotta fold a large part of his range, and it is bad vs a 55% opener because his range is stronger and it contains more hands capable to flat and more hand that he could 4bet. My question is about the 4bet, it depends on the eff stack obv, but let’s say we are 60 bb deep, we have room to make a very small 4bet and obv call his 5betshove; since he’s 3bet 35% he can’t have many strong holding in his range so, if we shove he can’t call often, but if we 4bet small he could 5betshove wide while he’s crushed. So I think 4bet small with TT+ is optimal while I’m not sure with AQ+"It depends on your opening size 60bb deep and his 3bet size but in general absolutely, you should be developing a 4bet range against this opponent and not just going jammers crazy. You'll want a 4bet bluffing range with that much back (cash players will lol hard about 60bb being a lot, but stfu cash players nobody likes you). The power of position becomes extremely important and you can put in 4bets and put your opponents in really annoying situations. With AQ/AK it often depends on sizing, clearly if our opponent thinks we have a 4bet bluffing range and is ready and willing to 5bet jam somewhat wide we want to be 4betting, if they don't do that as much it depends how much of an overbet a jam is. Most of the value in 4betting non-allin with AQ/AK is the induce once we have a bluffing dynamic set up. This is very similar to my posts about how we should usually 3bet jam AQ/AK in STs rather than 3bet non-allin, most of the value from doing otherwise is against opponents who we can induce against and if we don't get that, our opponent actually gains by flatting a lot. That's less true when we're in position but it's the same general concept.
how confident are you in your advocating the limping of k4,k5,q5 in the 12bb range (12bb rofl cheat sheet) and do you think minr is a better option if they have a low 3b%
Minraise definitely a better option if they have a low 3bet/high fold %. Not particularly confident, that was meant to just be an example range, not necessarily what's best. It's quite the claim to say for sure what is better readless. I think both are viable options. I do think limping T8o type stuff is best readless with a fairly high confidence level.
did you have any thougts about me using hands for 25bb preflop eff stack hands as a basis of avg population stats given most play at exactly 25bb is on avg v readless.
Implied odds Q (Long post but short Qs)I raise pre and he flats, I cbet 60 and he raises to 150, Hero callsI didn't expect a bet on the turn from this villain (many times he minraises or c/r flop small with air), anyway I think he got a hand now (you can see his hand because Hero shoves without thinking :( )Now I'm gonna to make some statements please correct me if I'm wrong 1.He could have a strong queen, but in his range there are also two pairs +, so a pretty strong range... which boost our implied odds2. Our hand is pretty disguised, if we hit a running flush he can never put us on that, so if a heart comes on the river there are many chances that he will stack off. Also if a 4 comes it's unlikely it could help us, so if we hit our hand is disguised that help us to get the money in3. I think I'm facing one of the worst hand possible here, an ace isn't going to help us, I think and queen is possibile, strong or not, I really don't know, he's 3betting AQ and KQ pre, so there are hands like Q8, QT etc... depends on the villain holding we have a different number of outs, let check it out (I'm using the MasterLJ spreadsheet) Wow, I didn't expected that, if we are against Qx, a call is making moneyLet's see against two pairs and sets4. This time we don't have immediate odds to call, so we need to gain extra value on the river in order to make our play profitable...5. On the river the pot will be 1080, and we should only make 300 to BE, 1/3 potbet is totally achieveable due to his strong holding and our disguised hand6. I think this is not the case, but sometimes opponents don't have a very strong hand and maybe they will fold... in order to BE we should make 300 every time we call (I'M NOT REALLY SURE ABOUT THIS)7. If Villain sometimes is going to fold we have to compensate it in some kind of manner, so we could bet 600 or AI and if we get called we can compensate the times opponents folds
A few things here.First of all, his range is very polarized when he takes this line. Either he has a hand that's willing to get it in, or we actually have the best hand! That's going to be true the vast majority of the time. That's the biggest reason why your turn jam isn't a good one - you're not folding out anything you lose to (you may actually get some value from worse draws that have to call it off!).When we're not making money on the river it's actually when we have the best hand. Our opponent is basically never check/folding although it could happen on a K or an A. You have the implied odds to continue.The 300 thing means that you need to have an expectation of 300 - sometimes you'll get nothing, sometimes you'll get all of it, but it should average out to better than 300. Don't bet the amount on the river that makes the turn call correct - that's irrelevant to the optimal river size.
can u give me a mers genius lowdown on 10-15bb playing suited connectors 45 up to 9T, i know a lot of them are easy jams round ten but round the 15 area im wondering what the merits are of jamming vs minr folding. kind of just wanna make sure im not being to nitty/loose with open jamming these around the 15bb area.
Hey Mers! Lets say we're playing a really aggressive player who 3-bets ~30% and shoves over alot of limps and we pick up K5o 13 bbs deep. According to NASH I can shove here but then I also need to be shoving AA which Im obviously not doing. I guess my question is, is there anyway to calculate whether a shove here with K5o in itself is +EV?
"can u give me a mers genius lowdown on 10-15bb playing suited connectors 45 up to 9T, i know a lot of them are easy jams round ten but round the 15 area im wondering what the merits are of jamming vs minr folding. kind of just wanna make sure im not being to nitty/loose with open jamming these around the 15bb area."Especially 12+bb, these hands will almost always play better as limps or minraise/folds than openjams. Even though they will be +EV openjams often, again, comparing to folding makes it too easy. Consider how well your hand plays in a limped pot, and how your hand is playing against a minraise or a limp.
"Also, can you talk a bit about playing SC OOP vs a minraise too? again the merits of jamming vs flatting 10-18BB."Highly contentious debate. It's obviously a function mainly of opening range, but again, flatting is generally better than folding for most of those situations. The exact borders are harder to define because sample sizes are less (because these stack sizes are played at less often, because you face minraises at these stack depths less often, and because more often it's correct to jam, all of which decrease your flatting sample size).The biggest mistakes people make here are having too defined of a strategy and not adapting enough. When you're playing against someone who is raising a legit 80% 15bb deep, flatting instead of jamming gets very bad very quickly. When you're playing against someone who is raising 40% at this new stack size, jamming instead of flatting gets very bad very quickly. You get the idea. The borders are just much fuzzier than usual because estimating opening range and expectation from flatting at this stack depth is tough.
"Hey Mers! Lets say we're playing a really aggressive player who 3-bets ~30% and shoves over alot of limps and we pick up K5o 13 bbs deep. According to NASH I can shove here but then I also need to be shoving AA which Im obviously not doing. I guess my question is, is there anyway to calculate whether a shove here with K5o in itself is +EV?"OK, so, a few things here.Your opponent has no idea if you're shoving AA or not. He's not even thinking about that. He just has a general calling range that he uses. What's the best expectation to do against that is what you're trying to find out. Your shove with K5o will be -EV against some calling ranges and +EV against others. In general, it's a marginally +EV jam, but that's compared against folding - and folding K5o isn't the next best option. You can limp or minraise, too.Go read all the articles available about shove-or-fold, ROFL 12bb deep, etc. Those will help out with a lot of your concerns.
Hmm so i'm confused now about IP SC. You just said that 12+ BB they play almost always better as minr/f or limps. But in your article about ROFLing you have them on your chart as open jams and recommend that chart as a snapshot of ".. the bread and butter of my historical success 10-15bb deep from the small blind - hands shift between ranges based on stack size and opponent tendencies, but 12bb readless provides a decent snapshot, I think."I'm obv not trying to call you out, just trying to get things straight. Readless should I be looking to open jam SC <12BB and minr/f or limp >12BB ? Obv things depend on opponents, but just in general what should i be looking to have in my mind as a standard that i can adjust from?
Mazurski - that's a very good call. A few days after I made that chart I suspected it might be a bit too much on the "openshove" side of some of those suited connectors. 12bb is an inflection point with those hands - any deeper, and I think it's way too deep, any shallower, and I think shoving generally tends to have the best expectation. I've come to believe that minraising or limping may be better readless with some of those suited connectors at 12bb, jamming being better at 11bb, etc. The most premium suited connectors like T9s should probably still be jammed readless but I overstated my case a bit with saying that they "almost always play better". In my head I was thinking more about 96s type stuff rather than th.e 98s variety
Hey Mers do you know something about Game theory? I want to study that but I don't know what type of math knowledge I should have in order to don't encounter any problems...
"Hey Mers do you know something about Game theory? I want to study that but I don't know what type of math knowledge I should have in order to don't encounter any problems..."Yes, I know something about game theory :)Here's an introduction I'd recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Mathematical-Association-America-Textbook...Obviously you should only get it if you're interested in game theory just in general, $45 is too much if you're just thinking of it as a poker investment.
from thecupshalffull's thread:Out of the box: Haha thanks, let me throw this one at you. If we have a hand like J2S and were 14x deep against the type of player that I described do u maybe like the 3-3.5x raise?My thinking is that if he shoves we not committed, he's going to view our raise as an extremely strong range, our hand doesn't play well postflop, and even if we do get called we can make a scary small cbet on a lot of boards that will get us a fold. If my understanding is correct, we minraise instead of 2.5x 14 bb deep because we think that it will accomplish the same thing but risk less of our stack. If that's the case and we come to the conclusion that were getting flatted/raised by 70% of hands vs a 2x, 60% of hands vs a 2.5x, but vs a 3.5x only about 30ish % of hands, If that the case then making that raise is good in a vacuum.Obviously this is extremely player dependent and wouldn't be a play used on a consistent basis.
It's a cheeky play but I'm pretty sure h2olga/R-Q for example will use the bigger raise size 13-17bb deep as a bluff for this exact reason against certain opponents (balanced by some get it in hands that don't want to get flatted). You can exploit people who will view 2.5x as always getting it in. You definitely need reads, though.
I don't think I've ever had anyone call a play of mine cheeky :] Nice to hear that it can be good with the right type of player given reads.Speaking of h2olga/R-Q what are your thoughts on opening to 2.25x with the top and bottom of your raising range early 20-30bb deep in STs? I'd instinctively think it's best to still minraise my j10 q8s type hands because they play so well when called OOP. But hands like a2o and 45s would prefer to get a higher % of folds pf so a slightly larger raise would be best.
I think the reason not to raise more with JT/Q8s isn't because you're hoping for more calls, it's because it's more damaging to raise/fold these hands when you get jammed on. If your opponent doesn't 3bet jam much there's really no reason not to raise more from the button - really the whole point of why that's exploitable is the fact that you can 3bet jam on it wide successfully.I do like the general line of thought though - it does make sense to have a 2.25xing range and a 2xing range with those kinds of properties. One of the biggest benefits is just seeing how people react to it and then adjust against their adjustments, which are often extremely exploitable.
I never thought about it like that, good point. It's gonna be fun to mess around with my opening sizes/hand ranges vs different player types and see how they adjust :]
That's a tough question to give a good answer to. If all other factors were consistent, there would be some answer, but on different boards you have more fold equity, on different boards you can do different things on the turn and river, etc. It's debatable and stylistic how much you should be check/raising a K72r type board completely readless (not even recognizing screenname, although technically that too is a read) - you won't get too many "it's debateable/stylistic" answers from me in this forum, but this is one of them.I'd encourage you to change how you're looking at the c/r bluff decision though - it's not really about what equity you might end up with (although it's certainly better to c/r 98 on that board than 54) but rather your opponent's range.
Hey mers! Forwarded from my thread:"Whats your calling range first hand readless vs a mr? How does it differ vs a 3x, 4x?so 25bb deep:flatting range vs 2x:A9s-A2s,KTs-K2s,Q2s+,J3s+,T5s+,95s+,85s+,75s+,65s,ATo-A2o,KTo-K4o,Q6o+,J7o+,T7o+,98o,87o (43.1% of hands, 3betting another 12% approx - so 55% of total hands oop)flatting range vs 3x:A5s-A2s,K9s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o (14.2% of hands)3betting range vs 3x: 22+,A7s+,A8o+ (13.4%, so 27.6% oop...nittier bc i expect avg 3x range to be on nittier side too)flatting range vs 4x: K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (8.4% of hands, 3betting range pretty much same as vs 3x) something like that...obv the bottom end of each range is debatable a bit. just remember that the more villain risks from his sb to win our bb, the less total hands we need to play oop. so the more he raises, the less and less we can flat - eventually we will reach a point where we are just 3bet shove/folding obv. also, the more villain risks from sb with his pfr, the more value there is in the fold equity we have when 3bet shoving (not that we have a ton vs the typical 3x'ing range, but i'm jamming some of the middling AX bc of card removal - dont think the typical 3x range is wide enough to include all A2-A7 though...too many total hand combos vs a nitty range imo)i'm interested to see what mers says though, so fwd to his thread if you want."
''Yeah I understood what you meant :) I was trying to guide you to ask better questions, which is one area you need work on. You're a very advanced player but asking the question "which flops should I c-bet?" is just not going to get you the kind of information that you want. As you get more and more skilled you should be learning how to ask more informed and more specific questions rather than just asking for basic percentages and generalities'' Yep you are right I should learn to ask better questions. But the problem is that I really don't know what to ask anymore. Half a year ago I diden't know shit and it felt like I doubled my skill level every month. Now I'm lucky if I get even 1% better. 90% of my mistakes is due to emotional stress such as running 50K under EV, playing to many tables and hours, getting bored and so on. I'm definitly very far from perfect strategy wise, but it's starting to get really hard to improve since I don't have any obvious weaknesses like I use to have.Posting hands and getting them answered definitly helps but it's a pretty slow and tedious process one tiny little brick at a time =).If you were in my situation what questions would you ask? How would you take your game to the next level? Some other questions I thought about today: When you play someone who opens to 45 instead of 40, what size do you 3b to?And what hands would hit the muck instead of a cold call, assuming we are playing 20-25bb deep and the person is opening 70-80%.I'm also a little bit unsure of what hands to flat vs a minraise 10-16bb deep. For example Greg diden't think 97o was good enough to flat 12bb deep and would either fold or 3bet ai. Would you ever flat T7o 12bb deep or is it also 3b or fold?What about hands like 65s, 75s, 85s, 96s, 86s and so on, what condtions have to be meet in order for you to flat 10-16bb deep?
"flatting range vs 2x:A9s-A2s,KTs-K2s,Q2s+,J3s+,T5s+,95s+,85s+,75s+,65s,ATo-A2o,KTo-K4o,Q6o+,J7o+,T7o+,98o,87o (43.1% of hands, 3betting another 12% approx - so 55% of total hands oop)"Readless I'm jamming A7s+ A8o+. You can call a bit wider - 54s, 74s, 97o etc def should be played, can make an argument for even wider with stuff like 96o, Q5o, 76o, etc. "flatting range vs 3x:A5s-A2s,K9s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o (14.2% of hands)"3xing range should be posted in this thread already in a response to chadders :) You can definitely play more hands. Folding 98s to a 3x is a sin. "3betting range vs 3x: 22+,A7s+,A8o+ (13.4%, so 27.6% oop...nittier bc i expect avg 3x range to be on nittier side too)"I think this is a good general sense of it. "flatting range vs 4x: K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (8.4% of hands, 3betting range pretty much same as vs 3x)"I wouldn't jam A7s/A8o over a 4x but it's reasonably close. Your flatting range seems OK.
"Some other questions I thought about today: When you play someone who opens to 45 instead of 40, what size do you 3b to?"I usually do 120/125 readless. "And what hands would hit the muck instead of a cold call, assuming we are playing 20-25bb deep and the person is opening 70-80%."It shouldn't make that much of a difference, it changes the math slightly but not a big deal. Basically it's just shaving off the edges, like 76o and stuff it now may be on the other side of the borderline. But since nobody is that precise to say "this hand you should play, this next best hand you should not play" in the first place to a minraise (we can come up with good estimations but not extremely precise ones), I could believe that 76o is a fold to both or a call to both. You don't need to adjust your play too much if 45 is the standard opening size, just very slight modifications at the edges, and if they're really opening that size 70-80%, slightly more 3bet jamming. "I'm also a little bit unsure of what hands to flat vs a minraise 10-16bb deep. For example Greg diden't think 97o was good enough to flat 12bb deep and would either fold or 3bet ai. Would you ever flat T7o 12bb deep or is it also 3b or fold?"This is one of the biggest unsolved questions in ST poker. I tend to believe 97o/T7o are folds readless 12bb deep but it's up for debate.As you get shorter, the worse your OOP expectation from flatting becomes, mostly because minraising ranges become tighter. So when you have a +EV jam it becomes even better to take it and when you don't there's sometimes not a lot of wiggle room to call against that minraising range you couldn't jam on in the first place. At different stack sizes that statement implies different things. There can be a sweet spot in there where your hand is 98s and you think you're getting induced a ton but you still feel you have the expectation to flat, or slightly weaker minraising ranges where T8o can't be jammed but can be flatted, etc. It's tough and I suspect very few people really feel super comfortable with these decisions."What about hands like 65s, 75s, 85s, 96s, 86s and so on, what condtions have to be meet in order for you to flat 10-16bb deep?"We're getting induced too much to jam but that inducing range contains enough unpaired hands that we can flat.
Against someone who 3bet-jams 38% for 20+bb, but lets me limp, which hands should I mr/call, mr/fold or limp ?Minraise/call KTs+, KJo+, QJs, A6s+ - limp stuff that plays well post-flop and minraise/fold some of the more trashy hands ?
Against someone who 3bet-jams 38% for 20+bb, but lets me limp, which hands should I mr/call, mr/fold or limp ?Minraise/call KTs+, KJo+, QJs, A6s+ - limp stuff that plays well post-flop and minraise/fold some of the more trashy hands ?I'd like to take a shot at this, and have Mers review my answer :) Nothing wrong with checking up on my own thought process a bit too."someone who jams 38% for 20+bb" - remember that there is going to be a pretty big difference in how you play certain hands 20 and 25 bb deep. so "20+" is a dangerous way to phrase this imo. A2o is a minraise call vs a 38% 3bet shover 20 deep, but a minraise fold 25 deep for example."but lets me limp" - we should be limping a range that can limp/call a high % of the time (so something like QJo down to 86s ... connected hands that realize equity well on flop). so whether villain raises our limps with a high frequency or not doesn't really effect our decision to have a limping range (unless he's just overbet shoving or 7x'ing or something insane and doing it a ton). obv this is unlikely, but if villan had a super low flatting frequency (or no flatting range) 20 deep and was just 3bet shoving 38%, we should raise our button with atc and print money bc he is folding his bb too much (i'd like it to be 45%ish or < for this to be max expectation though).20bb deep, i would mr/call 44+ A2o+ A2s+ KTo+ K9s+ QTs+polarize this raising range with K6o Q4s 95s T4s type stuff - hands that don't fair as well limped, but aren't total trash and can continue decent when villain flats.what do you think Mers?
"Against someone who 3bet-jams 38% for 20+bb, but lets me limp, which hands should I mr/call, mr/fold or limp ?"Minraise/call KTs+, KJo+, QJs, A6s+ - limp stuff that plays well post-flop and minraise/fold some of the more trashy hands ?"Basically, yeah. It depends how often he's folding, not just his 3betting range - the more often he folds the more likely you should be to be putting those trashy hands in your minraising range instead of limping in. Some slight disagreements with Hokie - I don't think 95s/T4s are the worst hands in the world to limp here, really the decision is what to do with K3o, 74o, 93s type stuff that kind of blows in limped pots but if he's letting us limp a lot it may well be better than openfolding, but raising may also be better if we're getting a decent amount of folds. Hokie's range looks fine if he really is jamming that wide - but usually the weakest aces will be folds against someone who seems to be jamming this wide because they're often not especially after you start adjusting your opening range.
I just have played with my stats on HM and find out that I play bad at BB when 20-25bb deep, with a -5.35 EV bb/100 in 14k BB hands (overall is 0.11 for BB and 9.73 for SB in all my 66k hands). I tried to figure out why and discover that the problem may come from the my flat range.HM filter: postition BB, eff stack 15-25bb, Preflop Actions Call, Allin Preflop = FalseHope I have set up the filter correctly. I run at -39.7 ev bb/100 in these 2151 flat hands (most are flat 2x). The results really shock me as I lost most EV chips on hands like JTo, 87o, Q8o, K6o, 98o,76o, T8s, 97s, K9o, Q9o, 98s. I thought these hands were all perfect hands for flat but I run at -200 ev bb/100 for these hands.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/flatloss.jpg/The top gainers are KTs, J9s, K5o, T9s, AA, KK, KTo, T9o, J7s, K8o, K8s.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/flatwin.jpg/As I only have 20-70 sample hands for each one, to reduce the variance problem, I add one additional filter for Hole cards as K9o-K4o,QJo-Q5o,QJs-Q6s,Jo-J6o,JTs-J5s,T9-T6,98-96,87-86,76os. I still run at -68 EV bb/100 for these 1667 hands.If this is a big enough sample, it's a very serious problem for me and I have to fix this leak as soon as possible to stop bleeding money. Could you have a check on your ev bb/100 for these flat hands? And what does this suggest about my leaks? Play too fit or fold with these hands at BB of 15-25bb??
BB VPIP: 753bet: 24%Flop fold vs cbet: 29Check/Raise: 18Fold to 2 barrel: 40Aggressive vs limps What types of adjustments are you making against this player both pre and postflop? How wide are you opening preflop considering you aren't picking up the hand uncontested preflop or on the flop that often?
How many hands vs 1 player would you like to have before putting much stock into the following stats:-fold to cbet-3bet-fold to 3bet-fold to 2 barrel-flop check-raise-fold to flop check-raise Obviously we're also factoring in hands shown down, notes,etc... but it's nice to also have a good idea of how much stock to put into particular hud stats over different samples.
Is 33 the strongest pair you are raise/folding vs a jam 30bb deep? Do you ever prefer raise/calling or do you just raise/fold til 25bb & then jam?Also, if somebody 2.5x or 3x 3bets you with 30bb when you have 33, are you jamming as a standard or do you want to know they're an aggressive raiser 1st? I'm guessing jam as standard.
Against an 80% raiser do you think we should be flatting hands like K3o, Q5o, J6o, T6o, 96o, 86o, 76o, Q3s, J4s, & T4s? If so, do you think we should ever flat any wider, particularly if our opponent starts raising closer to 100%?FWIW, I would test them with some 3 bets with these hands 1st but many people defend too wide vs 3bets that it becomes -EV.
cross post from my thead:genereal jist is i think a readless nai3b bluff range as standard may be optimal, imo i think the freq should be relatively low but still there somewhat. In attempt to prove this mathematically...(cross post);ok so still on the think aloud train here, but i went into pt3 and checked the my success % rate for nai3b, then i realised this was pointless because the bluff part of the nai3b was likely 3b with reads to justify it so its a biased sample...so i took all my value hands that i would 3b nai3b regardless of opponent type (tbh tho this is still al a little biased since with my Ax hands i make nai3b as standard against semi competent people who def wont just call it off and 3bs otherwise/readless)so this is effectively my instances of readless nai3bs, with the sample a lil swayed to competent opponents (will run results without Ax to see diff); with 99+, AT+, KJ+, i have a nai3b% success rate of 56%, so not too far off our required 60%, and i imagine cbet % success rate is pretty high in 3b pots to make up for this. I think this coule be improved on, taking hands that are exclusively nai3b readless (so prob JJ-AA, KQ) and combine some samples to come up with a 3bsuccess% and a cbet success % in 3bpot, the numbers from these over any sample will probably conclusively prove whether a readless 3b bluff is profitableAlso with some of these hands we are comparing flattin/folding so if we take a hand like q4o, which we believe is not in our flatting range then we only have to beat -1bb/hand to justify a profitable 3bet, thus taking the % success rate of the 3b bluff to be profitable below the 50% mark right?gonna have a bit of fun with the maths later i guess, but for now just chucking round ideas, but i think that if we do come up with a range then it should be a static range such that are frequency of 3b bluffs is based entirely on hands, at a guess im thinkin someweak k/q/Jx, there are def enough hands in that range to make up a 5% bluff freq or something
When thinking of maximizing hourly rate, is there a certain % you want your lowest buy-in to be when comparing it to your highest buy-in running?When I have a $1K running I don't register lower than $500. When I have a $500 running I don't generally register lower than $250. While I'm pretty damn sure it's -EV to register for a $150 with a $1K running, I could possibly be convinced otherwise with a $500 running, although I don't currently register for $150s w/ a $500 running.Without $500s & $1Ks running I'll sometimes register all the way down to $90, depending on how the action is. $500+ action is so hit and miss that I'd rather not just sit only in high stakes lobbies waiting if nothing is running. Once I get games running in the $250-$90 range the difference between my highest buy-in running & lowest buy-in I register for varies. If it's later in the week where my mind is warmed up better I'm usually willing to accept a wider gap between highest buy-in & lowest buy-in than earlier in the week, especially considering I'm playing less tables earlier in the week. Thanks for that article on warming up the mind throughout the week. I think that has helped a lot. I used to just 4-6 table pretty much all week.The worst is when I get a few $90-$250 running & a $1K pops off, or I sit a reg in a $90 & then instantly get sat in a $1K. This is bound to happen though and I think it's still worth registering for lower buy-ins with no $500/$1Ks running, although I could be convinced on where the optimal cutoff is (ex. higher than $90).Thoughts?
''These are the type of theoretical questions I'm always pretty skeptical of, I'm not sure I've played an opponent who folds way more often to 120 than 100. But in general, yes :p''I'd say it's pretty rare to find an opponents who responds the exact same way vs my 3b to 100 and 3b to 120. But maybe that's because I 3b to 120 way less often than to 100 so when I do they give me more credit. But ok so skip the bluffs and widen my 3b for value range vs a loose 3b caller. ''Alright which 80% of hands is it exactly?" ''Ask something specific here about which hands you want to compare.''What I meant was which 80% of hands do you use, is it any suited and J4o+,T6o+,95o+ and that sort of stuff? "So a pretty standard Reg flats 40% and 3bets 20%, how much % would you open from the SB at 20-25bb?" ''Depends how he responds to limps.''Oky he raises 35% vs limps. ''If they don't adjust their 3bet jamming range against your tighter opening range you'll be making a lot of money.''In the example I gave how tight would your min raising range be? '' In general though if someone has a wide openlimping range that is somewhat balanced, you just happily check behind a lot and thank your opponent for giving you a lot of free flops.''Ye assuming he has a balanced limping range, I'd guess you'd still shove your Ax, low PP's and raise your monsters for value right? ''Again, frame your question with specific examples/comparisons.''For example I don't know if I'd should cbet a KJ5 two spades flop, or a 984 two clubs flop vs a standard opponent. But ye I guess theres no rule of thumb and that it's better to post some specific hands and situations to get a feel for it. Say you have K9o on a 987 two spades would you still cbet half pot as a standard or would you bet more cause it's sucha scary flop?
I got problems with my pc so I thought about hijacking threads and asking questions... … so of my questions will be about other FT members or about your replies to them, other will be totally mine. Let's review Champaz's thread Normal: User Question Italic: your reply Bold: My question 1 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-18589 Q:Anyhow about my contbet size in the 3bet pot, when is it correct to bet half, potsize, less than half and so on. Right now I have just gotten into the habbit of betting 40% of pot which isn't an amazing reason to do anything. A: h2olga actually has a really good rule of thumb in his most recent video - bet about 1/4 (or a little less) of the remaining effective stack size. So if there's 600 in the pot with 1200 behind, we bet around 250-300, etc MQ: I didn’t watch that video since I don’t have a premium membership at husng.com. Btw I’m interested about this rule… I think this betsizing is good whether we got value or bluff, if we got value we are betting a size allow some room for villain to spazz out, if we got a non-value hand we aren’t committing ourselves to the pot, so we are increasing the EV of our bluff. For me this is the main reasons about this bet… are there others reasons? 2 MQ: 10bb deep, at 50/100 blinds, we are in the SB and a huge fish is on the BB. Now, many times I’m hearing “You can’t r/f 10bb deep” … I’m understand the main reason (we are risking a lot due to the low eff stack) however, I don’t think openshoving or folding are the 2 choices here, r/f is still good imo. Let’s plug in some numbers… 50/100 Hero: 1000 Villain: 1000 Hero raises to 200 with junk, Villain shoves Total pot 1300, to call 850, 850/2150= 40% , so we are BE if we have 40% equity We know Villain is gonna to shove or fold and he’s not capable of shoving air or mid-holdings but only very good hands which we have less than 40% equity… so we can still r/f imo. r/f > shove because we are risking less than our entire stack to achieve our goal (get the blinds). So since Villain is gonna fold if he got a junk/mid hand and he’s gonna call when he has us crushed… r/f is better than a shove. Also, we are risking 150 to win 150, if Villain is gonna fold more than 50% we are printing money while we are avoid his strong hands Does it makes sense or there is some flaw behind my logic? 3 MQ: with low eff stacks like (15-10bb) I’m limp/stab a lot against very passive fit-or-fold guys that doesn’t play back to me often. I found out that many times a 1/4 pot bet can take down the pot pretty easily, so against Villains who are folding a ton vs my cbets (let’s say 40%+) I’m playing close to 100% of my buttons, limping my very top and bottom range and limp the rest… I don’t know if it is correct because mainly I see players talk about preflop tendencies while they didn’t care much about postflop tendencies (at this stage). Yeah, players should 3bet or fold at 10bb deep, but most fishes don’t… So imo we should take into consideration postflop tendencies since Villain is going to flat sometimes (or many times,it depends from the fish J ) 4 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19670 Q:You are playing a winning reg who 3bets to t90 and that stuff with a very big 3bet procent, say about 35%, how should I adjust in regards to what hands to limp, minra and 4b shove? A:Jam any ace, any pair. Tighten up your opening range preflop, have a lot less junk in it (just openfold) until he adjusts to that. It's a good strategy against a 100% minraiser, a terrible strategy against a 55% minraiser. Those are the biggest two adjustments. MQ: a. Jam any ace nmw the effective stack is? b. 35% 3bet is huge, it’s good vs a 100% minraiser because he gotta fold a large part of his range, and it is bad vs a 55% opener because his range is stronger and it contains more hands capable to flat and more hand that he could 4bet. My question is about the 4bet, it depends on the eff stack obv, but let’s say we are 60 bb deep, we have room to make a very small 4bet and obv call his 5betshove; since he’s 3bet 35% he can’t have many strong holding in his range so, if we shove he can’t call often, but if we 4bet small he could 5betshove wide while he’s crushed. So I think 4bet small with TT+ is optimal while I’m not sure with AQ+ 5. (same previous question with an extra detail) http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19772 Q :You are playing a winning reg who 3bets to t90 and that stuff with a very big 3bet procent, say about 35%, how should I adjust in regards to what hands to limp, minra and 4b shove? A: Jam any ace, any pair. Tighten up your opening range preflop, have a lot less junk in it (just openfold) until he adjusts to that. It's a good strategy against a 100% minraiser, a terrible strategy against a 55% minraiser. Those are the biggest two adjustments.'' Ok all other conditions is the same but to make matters more complicated he folds 49-50% preflop, that makes min raising profitable with trash so now what do you do? :P Raise a good chunk of your trash. Don't feel bad when you get jammed on. Profit. MQ: what about minraising 100%? If he starts to play more than 50% oop we will adjust but for now, why not minraise 100%? People who 3bet so much aren’t competent and emotional imo, minraising 100% make them frustrated and they play back with marginal holdings when we have a monster (like a said in the previous question). So at least we are BEing and at the same time our Villain could get angry :p 6 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19772 Q: Today I played vs an opponent who flatts 60% 3bet 10%, only folding 27% to cbets cr around 30%, when you ch instead of cbetting he mostly attacks on turn but not always, how would you adjust to this both preflop and postflop? A: Against this type of opponent you want to tighten up your playing range. You can consider limping and stabbing a lot with your 96o type stuff - People with this low of a 3bet % usually aren't very agressive against limps, and you can have a raising range preflop that's mostly stronger hands and a limping range that's mostly weaker hands, and it's fine. Postflop you can pass up on some more marginal c-bets, bet turn for value (and for bluff) more often because range is weaker. MQ: Regarding cbets, I can’t thinking clearly about checking or betting our value hands… I understand that we should lower our cbet frequency since Villain isn’t going to fold often but… a. If you have a strong hand like top pair, do you advocate betting the flop or check since Villain will fires out a ton of turns? b. Should we bet and double barrel our mid holdings? Most of the times we got the best hand, and maybe the turn gives us FE in case Villain has total air, so we get value from very marginal holdings and we fold out complete air… c. So my plan should be checking back most of my strong hands on the flop and let him bet the turn and hopefully the river, while bet and double barrel my mid holdings… does make sense? 7 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19929 Q: see the hand in the link above A: Definitely not fun. Given that you have some reads on your opponent my decision on turn would be based 100% on an estimation of the size of his balls. Some people would always give up here with their air. I think your line is probably best against most, but so many people will check Qx on this turn (or at least not make it half pot). So I'm torn. If we had TT I'd probably not c-bet this flop given that K or J (and mostly just a jack) are the only bad turn cards and we're unlikely to get much value except by checking. I definitely like the smaller c-bet size, though. MB: Don’t you think the K on the turn is a strange card for him to continue betting? He’s c/ring 25% which is a lot, so this is a perfect flop for him to c/r imo. Most of the times I 3bet AI this flop, because I want to make things little easier, but I don’t think it is optimal. You said a flat could be optimal against most opponents but a Villain who is c/ring 25% isn’t std imo, so imo we should flat against most of opponents while vs aggros like this we can easily 3bet AI avoiding difficulties on future streets, imo Villain has a lot of air here… but I don’t know… If the turn comes an 8 or worse what’s your plan against a Villain bet? And if the turn would be a J? 8 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19932 Q: see link above A: Jamming over limps 12bb deep: I agree middling offsuit hands are often great to check back because they play well postflop. Q4s is a great example of a light hand to jam - suited stuff with high card power in general is decent enough, plus king-rag, with the lowest kicker depending on limping frequency (there are some I'd jam over with K2o and some I'm checking behind K8o. As a default, I'd jam K5o over a limp 12bb deep). MQ: I often consider postflop opponent tendencies even at the low eff stacks. I don’t know if I’m result oriented but, I got pissed off when Villain l/c KTo and I shoved K2o L . If he’s passive postflop we could lead (depending on the flop) or bet if he missed the stab… Is this suboptimal? 9 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest#comment-19998 Q: see above link A: Q5ss hand...hmm. I think I would usually just flat flop readless - there are a LOT of hands you really don't want to run into (better 5x, queen high/king high/ace high flush draws, and then obviously two pair/straight/set type hands. Then again, that flop sizing is unlikely for two pair/sets, and is a bet/fold sizing from a lot of people (or at the very least, not having vulnerable made hands that are strong enough to call a jam in the range). If I did raise, I'd probably make it bigger, because people will use this sizing with weaker pairs/ace high type hands that can call a small size. MQ: If Villain is going to b/f often 100 would be ok imo, maybe 90 is good too… if he calls he could have a ton of weak hands that are very vulnerable to our barrels on the turn and river… c/c is what I generally do but I think a lot of times about this spot… vs a thinking player we are def losing money in the long run by c/c imo, since he recognize we have draws many times or weak pairs that we’ll fold on the later streets if we aren’t improving. I think c/c is better vs a total fish; what do you think? 10 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest?page=1#comment-20002 Q: Person A: He folds 30% of BB's calls 40% 3bets 30%. He only folds to 35% of cbets flatts most hands and CR's around 25% it's hard to get him to fold when you double barrel but sometimes he does. A: Against player A, he's 3betting way too much, and while there's value to raising JTo stuff more often when your opponent is calling too wide (as he is), I think the extra 3bet% means that it's best to limp your middle range and have a very strong opening range - down to about 30% or so, even, and really take advantage of his 3betting range. How much you can limp depends on his frequencies going after those (and to what sizing) as well. His ratio is way out of whack in his 3betting range whcih means we need to take advantage with a tighter opening range, more full of hands that can correctly call a 3bet. You can also take advantage by 4bet jamming wider and raise/calling wider depending on his 3betting size. MQ: Don’t you consider his postflop tendencies? 11 http://www.husng.com/content/champaz-nest?page=1#comment-20906 Q: What ranges do you 3bet and flatt call from BB against a reg that opens 90%, 20-25bb? Same question but the reg opens 80%? A reg who opens 80% at 16-21bb? A reg who opens 65% and limps 10% 10-12bb and 13-15bb? A: The honest reason why is that I've never really thought of it in this way, e.g. the difference between 80% and 90% and exact 3bet bluff ranges. A lot of it is also just going and using software and plugging in ranges, which is something I can teach you how to do if you'd like. MQ: Can you teach me also? Or teach to everyone in an article? Obv more questions are coming ;)
Im using pokertracker and a bunch of filters to work out how many times i face particular actions at 25bb eff preflop, given that this is a good filter for hands in the early stages of a ST do u think it is appropriate to consider the result a good indication of the avg population?If yes do you think the method would become redundant at shallower depths because after a few hands we consider avg population vs myself and my tendancies as opposed to avg population where we think they are only considering their hand and their eff stack.
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"What I meant was which 80% of hands do you use, is it any suited and J4o+,T6o+,95o+ and that sort of stuff?"Yeah I understood what you meant :) I was trying to guide you to ask better questions, which is one area you need work on. You're a very advanced player but asking the question "which flops should I c-bet?" is just not going to get you the kind of information that you want. As you get more and more skilled you should be learning how to ask more informed and more specific questions rather than just asking for basic percentages and generalities. So I hinted here that it's going to be more productive for you to ask a more specific question. For example, you could ask which hand are you more likely to open first hand in a superturbo, T5o or 23s? The answer here is definitely T5o in my view. Asking "which 80% do you open" also requires a much longer answer time for me, going through stove and plucking out all the hands to come up with an exact 80% even though I understand that while I do this there is plenty of wiggle room on "is this a 25th percentile or a 15th percentile type hand" questions rendering a lot of that exercise useless.I'm pretty sure I'm clear here that I'm definitely not annoyed at all, in fact the opposite, this is a good opportunity to teach something! :)T4o-T5o, 84o+, 75o+, 65o I'm definitely more lkely to open than the bottom suited junk.
""So a pretty standard Reg flats 40% and 3bets 20%, how much % would you open from the SB at 20-25bb?" ''Depends how he responds to limps.'' Oky he raises 35% vs limps."I think there are a lot of different routes here you can take in terms of your limping range vs raising range, there are just too many more tendencies in play to give blanket answers here that wouldn't get laughed at by other high stakes players (one question I ask myself sometimes is "what would R-Q/H2O think of the post I'm about to write?"). Apologies if that's an unsatisfying answer. I'm likely not raising 100% though, but certainly still playing more than 70% of hands.
"Ye assuming he has a balanced limping range, I'd guess you'd still shove your Ax, low PP's and raise your monsters for value right?"Yes."For example I don't know if I'd should cbet a KJ5 two spades flop, or a 984 two clubs flop vs a standard opponent. But ye I guess theres no rule of thumb and that it's better to post some specific hands and situations to get a feel for it. Say you have K9o on a 987 two spades would you still cbet half pot as a standard or would you bet more cause it's sucha scary flop?"OK good specifics. The KJ5ss and 984ss hands depend on your holdings, but in general, they're not quite wet enough to not c-bet with your weaker hands. They're good candidates to check back against most opponents with hands with showdown value though.
ServerB,Can you pick the 3-4 most important questions of those you want answered? I don't like putting limits, but I think it goes against the spirit of "mersenneary will be here from time to time, mostly on the weekends, to answer some questions that are best suited to him" for that many. To answer those questions well it would take me well over an hour, maybe two.Definitely don't mean to be stingy with my time - just trying to stay consistent with expectations. I'm half inclined to just go the extra mile ad answer it all but then it's really not fair if I don't do that for everyone and suddenly I have 20 hours of private coaching a month on my hands.
ServerB, Can you pick the 3-4 most important questions of those you want answered? I don't like putting limits, but I think it goes against the spirit of "mersenneary will be here from time to time, mostly on the weekends, to answer some questions that are best suited to him" for that many. To answer those questions well it would take me well over an hour, maybe two. Definitely don't mean to be stingy with my time - just trying to stay consistent with expectations. I'm half inclined to just go the extra mile ad answer it all but then it's really not fair if I don't do that for everyone and suddenly I have 20 hours of private coaching a month on my hands.+Yep def, I didn't want to abuse your time... I missed the "mers will be there from time to time"anyway Qs 1 to 4 ...
"MQ: I didn’t watch that video since I don’t have a premium membership at husng.com. Btw I’m interested about this rule… I think this betsizing is good whether we got value or bluff, if we got value we are betting a size allow some room for villain to spazz out, if we got a non-value hand we aren’t committing ourselves to the pot, so we are increasing the EV of our bluff. For me this is the main reasons about this bet… are there others reasons?" The general idea in these spots is that when you're making this bet, your range is stronger than your opponent's. Generally, especially when the 1/4-of-what's-left is on the smaller side with relation to the pot, it's also on fairly dry boards. 1/4 of what's left is really all that's needed to put your opponent to the test. You're not risking losing out on value when you have a value hand, and you're only making your bluffs cheaper. There are plenty of situations like this where you're still getting full value from a smaller bet because of streets left/pot commital but also making your bluff cheaper. It's not so much about getting your opponent to spazz out because that's worse for your bluff hands, it's mostly about those situations where a smaller bet is just the same thing when you have a value hand and better for you when you have a bluff.
You absolutely can raise/fold 10bb deep. I've made a lot against opponents who assume my minraising range at this stack depth is highly weighted to induces and are scared to play against it and have terrible equity. I've shown very good results minraising weaker hands 10bb deep but you have to pick your opponents.
Against tight/passive opponents I think it's definitely best to play 100% of hands from the button even 10-15bb deep, either by a minraise or a limp depending on their tendencies. I've seen people apply this strategy to the wrong sorts of opponents though, so you have to stay disciplined about thinking about whether you're applying the strategy against the right sort of opponent.
Q:You are playing a winning reg who 3bets to t90 and that stuff with a very big 3bet procent, say about 35%, how should I adjust in regards to what hands to limp, minra and 4b shove? A:Jam any ace, any pair. Tighten up your opening range preflop, have a lot less junk in it (just openfold) until he adjusts to that. It's a good strategy against a 100% minraiser, a terrible strategy against a 55% minraiser. Those are the biggest two adjustments. MQ: a. Jam any ace nmw the effective stack is?"The question was about STs I believe, but yes, any superturbo stack depth you can jam any ace over a true 35% 3bet rate. You just again have to be careful as that becomes a very -EV play once your opponent adapts his 3betting range to your aggression or just wasn't 3betting as much as you thought he was in the first place." b. 35% 3bet is huge, it’s good vs a 100% minraiser because he gotta fold a large part of his range, and it is bad vs a 55% opener because his range is stronger and it contains more hands capable to flat and more hand that he could 4bet. My question is about the 4bet, it depends on the eff stack obv, but let’s say we are 60 bb deep, we have room to make a very small 4bet and obv call his 5betshove; since he’s 3bet 35% he can’t have many strong holding in his range so, if we shove he can’t call often, but if we 4bet small he could 5betshove wide while he’s crushed. So I think 4bet small with TT+ is optimal while I’m not sure with AQ+"It depends on your opening size 60bb deep and his 3bet size but in general absolutely, you should be developing a 4bet range against this opponent and not just going jammers crazy. You'll want a 4bet bluffing range with that much back (cash players will lol hard about 60bb being a lot, but stfu cash players nobody likes you). The power of position becomes extremely important and you can put in 4bets and put your opponents in really annoying situations. With AQ/AK it often depends on sizing, clearly if our opponent thinks we have a 4bet bluffing range and is ready and willing to 5bet jam somewhat wide we want to be 4betting, if they don't do that as much it depends how much of an overbet a jam is. Most of the value in 4betting non-allin with AQ/AK is the induce once we have a bluffing dynamic set up. This is very similar to my posts about how we should usually 3bet jam AQ/AK in STs rather than 3bet non-allin, most of the value from doing otherwise is against opponents who we can induce against and if we don't get that, our opponent actually gains by flatting a lot. That's less true when we're in position but it's the same general concept.
how confident are you in your advocating the limping of k4,k5,q5 in the 12bb range (12bb rofl cheat sheet) and do you think minr is a better option if they have a low 3b%
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Minraise definitely a better option if they have a low 3bet/high fold %. Not particularly confident, that was meant to just be an example range, not necessarily what's best. It's quite the claim to say for sure what is better readless. I think both are viable options. I do think limping T8o type stuff is best readless with a fairly high confidence level.
did you have any thougts about me using hands for 25bb preflop eff stack hands as a basis of avg population stats given most play at exactly 25bb is on avg v readless.
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Seems reasonable.
Implied odds Q (Long post but short Qs)I raise pre and he flats, I cbet 60 and he raises to 150, Hero callsI didn't expect a bet on the turn from this villain (many times he minraises or c/r flop small with air), anyway I think he got a hand now (you can see his hand because Hero shoves without thinking :( )Now I'm gonna to make some statements please correct me if I'm wrong 1.He could have a strong queen, but in his range there are also two pairs +, so a pretty strong range... which boost our implied odds2. Our hand is pretty disguised, if we hit a running flush he can never put us on that, so if a heart comes on the river there are many chances that he will stack off. Also if a 4 comes it's unlikely it could help us, so if we hit our hand is disguised that help us to get the money in3. I think I'm facing one of the worst hand possible here, an ace isn't going to help us, I think and queen is possibile, strong or not, I really don't know, he's 3betting AQ and KQ pre, so there are hands like Q8, QT etc... depends on the villain holding we have a different number of outs, let check it out (I'm using the MasterLJ spreadsheet) Wow, I didn't expected that, if we are against Qx, a call is making moneyLet's see against two pairs and sets4. This time we don't have immediate odds to call, so we need to gain extra value on the river in order to make our play profitable...5. On the river the pot will be 1080, and we should only make 300 to BE, 1/3 potbet is totally achieveable due to his strong holding and our disguised hand6. I think this is not the case, but sometimes opponents don't have a very strong hand and maybe they will fold... in order to BE we should make 300 every time we call (I'M NOT REALLY SURE ABOUT THIS)7. If Villain sometimes is going to fold we have to compensate it in some kind of manner, so we could bet 600 or AI and if we get called we can compensate the times opponents folds
A few things here.First of all, his range is very polarized when he takes this line. Either he has a hand that's willing to get it in, or we actually have the best hand! That's going to be true the vast majority of the time. That's the biggest reason why your turn jam isn't a good one - you're not folding out anything you lose to (you may actually get some value from worse draws that have to call it off!).When we're not making money on the river it's actually when we have the best hand. Our opponent is basically never check/folding although it could happen on a K or an A. You have the implied odds to continue.The 300 thing means that you need to have an expectation of 300 - sometimes you'll get nothing, sometimes you'll get all of it, but it should average out to better than 300. Don't bet the amount on the river that makes the turn call correct - that's irrelevant to the optimal river size.
can u give me a mers genius lowdown on 10-15bb playing suited connectors 45 up to 9T, i know a lot of them are easy jams round ten but round the 15 area im wondering what the merits are of jamming vs minr folding. kind of just wanna make sure im not being to nitty/loose with open jamming these around the 15bb area.
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Also, can you talk a bit about playing SC OOP vs a minraise too? again the merits of jamming vs flatting 10-18BB.
Hey Mers! Lets say we're playing a really aggressive player who 3-bets ~30% and shoves over alot of limps and we pick up K5o 13 bbs deep. According to NASH I can shove here but then I also need to be shoving AA which Im obviously not doing. I guess my question is, is there anyway to calculate whether a shove here with K5o in itself is +EV?
"can u give me a mers genius lowdown on 10-15bb playing suited connectors 45 up to 9T, i know a lot of them are easy jams round ten but round the 15 area im wondering what the merits are of jamming vs minr folding. kind of just wanna make sure im not being to nitty/loose with open jamming these around the 15bb area."Especially 12+bb, these hands will almost always play better as limps or minraise/folds than openjams. Even though they will be +EV openjams often, again, comparing to folding makes it too easy. Consider how well your hand plays in a limped pot, and how your hand is playing against a minraise or a limp.
"Also, can you talk a bit about playing SC OOP vs a minraise too? again the merits of jamming vs flatting 10-18BB."Highly contentious debate. It's obviously a function mainly of opening range, but again, flatting is generally better than folding for most of those situations. The exact borders are harder to define because sample sizes are less (because these stack sizes are played at less often, because you face minraises at these stack depths less often, and because more often it's correct to jam, all of which decrease your flatting sample size).The biggest mistakes people make here are having too defined of a strategy and not adapting enough. When you're playing against someone who is raising a legit 80% 15bb deep, flatting instead of jamming gets very bad very quickly. When you're playing against someone who is raising 40% at this new stack size, jamming instead of flatting gets very bad very quickly. You get the idea. The borders are just much fuzzier than usual because estimating opening range and expectation from flatting at this stack depth is tough.
"Hey Mers! Lets say we're playing a really aggressive player who 3-bets ~30% and shoves over alot of limps and we pick up K5o 13 bbs deep. According to NASH I can shove here but then I also need to be shoving AA which Im obviously not doing. I guess my question is, is there anyway to calculate whether a shove here with K5o in itself is +EV?"OK, so, a few things here.Your opponent has no idea if you're shoving AA or not. He's not even thinking about that. He just has a general calling range that he uses. What's the best expectation to do against that is what you're trying to find out. Your shove with K5o will be -EV against some calling ranges and +EV against others. In general, it's a marginally +EV jam, but that's compared against folding - and folding K5o isn't the next best option. You can limp or minraise, too.Go read all the articles available about shove-or-fold, ROFL 12bb deep, etc. Those will help out with a lot of your concerns.
Hmm so i'm confused now about IP SC. You just said that 12+ BB they play almost always better as minr/f or limps. But in your article about ROFLing you have them on your chart as open jams and recommend that chart as a snapshot of ".. the bread and butter of my historical success 10-15bb deep from the small blind - hands shift between ranges based on stack size and opponent tendencies, but 12bb readless provides a decent snapshot, I think."I'm obv not trying to call you out, just trying to get things straight. Readless should I be looking to open jam SC <12BB and minr/f or limp >12BB ? Obv things depend on opponents, but just in general what should i be looking to have in my mind as a standard that i can adjust from?
Mazurski - that's a very good call. A few days after I made that chart I suspected it might be a bit too much on the "openshove" side of some of those suited connectors. 12bb is an inflection point with those hands - any deeper, and I think it's way too deep, any shallower, and I think shoving generally tends to have the best expectation. I've come to believe that minraising or limping may be better readless with some of those suited connectors at 12bb, jamming being better at 11bb, etc. The most premium suited connectors like T9s should probably still be jammed readless but I overstated my case a bit with saying that they "almost always play better". In my head I was thinking more about 96s type stuff rather than th.e 98s variety
Hey Mers do you know something about Game theory? I want to study that but I don't know what type of math knowledge I should have in order to don't encounter any problems...
"Hey Mers do you know something about Game theory? I want to study that but I don't know what type of math knowledge I should have in order to don't encounter any problems..."Yes, I know something about game theory :)Here's an introduction I'd recommend: http://www.amazon.com/Strategy-Mathematical-Association-America-Textbook...Obviously you should only get it if you're interested in game theory just in general, $45 is too much if you're just thinking of it as a poker investment.
ty Mers, I'm looking into it...Also I read about this one...http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Game-Theory/dp/161564055X/re...I don't know anything about these books but I will asap since I'm interested
from thecupshalffull's thread:Out of the box: Haha thanks, let me throw this one at you. If we have a hand like J2S and were 14x deep against the type of player that I described do u maybe like the 3-3.5x raise?My thinking is that if he shoves we not committed, he's going to view our raise as an extremely strong range, our hand doesn't play well postflop, and even if we do get called we can make a scary small cbet on a lot of boards that will get us a fold. If my understanding is correct, we minraise instead of 2.5x 14 bb deep because we think that it will accomplish the same thing but risk less of our stack. If that's the case and we come to the conclusion that were getting flatted/raised by 70% of hands vs a 2x, 60% of hands vs a 2.5x, but vs a 3.5x only about 30ish % of hands, If that the case then making that raise is good in a vacuum.Obviously this is extremely player dependent and wouldn't be a play used on a consistent basis.
It's a cheeky play but I'm pretty sure h2olga/R-Q for example will use the bigger raise size 13-17bb deep as a bluff for this exact reason against certain opponents (balanced by some get it in hands that don't want to get flatted). You can exploit people who will view 2.5x as always getting it in. You definitely need reads, though.
I don't think I've ever had anyone call a play of mine cheeky :] Nice to hear that it can be good with the right type of player given reads.Speaking of h2olga/R-Q what are your thoughts on opening to 2.25x with the top and bottom of your raising range early 20-30bb deep in STs? I'd instinctively think it's best to still minraise my j10 q8s type hands because they play so well when called OOP. But hands like a2o and 45s would prefer to get a higher % of folds pf so a slightly larger raise would be best.
I think the reason not to raise more with JT/Q8s isn't because you're hoping for more calls, it's because it's more damaging to raise/fold these hands when you get jammed on. If your opponent doesn't 3bet jam much there's really no reason not to raise more from the button - really the whole point of why that's exploitable is the fact that you can 3bet jam on it wide successfully.I do like the general line of thought though - it does make sense to have a 2.25xing range and a 2xing range with those kinds of properties. One of the biggest benefits is just seeing how people react to it and then adjust against their adjustments, which are often extremely exploitable.
I never thought about it like that, good point. It's gonna be fun to mess around with my opening sizes/hand ranges vs different player types and see how they adjust :]
How much equity would you need to c/r a dry board as a bluff readless?
That's a tough question to give a good answer to. If all other factors were consistent, there would be some answer, but on different boards you have more fold equity, on different boards you can do different things on the turn and river, etc. It's debatable and stylistic how much you should be check/raising a K72r type board completely readless (not even recognizing screenname, although technically that too is a read) - you won't get too many "it's debateable/stylistic" answers from me in this forum, but this is one of them.I'd encourage you to change how you're looking at the c/r bluff decision though - it's not really about what equity you might end up with (although it's certainly better to c/r 98 on that board than 54) but rather your opponent's range.
Hey mers! Forwarded from my thread:"Whats your calling range first hand readless vs a mr? How does it differ vs a 3x, 4x?so 25bb deep:flatting range vs 2x:A9s-A2s,KTs-K2s,Q2s+,J3s+,T5s+,95s+,85s+,75s+,65s,ATo-A2o,KTo-K4o,Q6o+,J7o+,T7o+,98o,87o (43.1% of hands, 3betting another 12% approx - so 55% of total hands oop)flatting range vs 3x:A5s-A2s,K9s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o (14.2% of hands)3betting range vs 3x: 22+,A7s+,A8o+ (13.4%, so 27.6% oop...nittier bc i expect avg 3x range to be on nittier side too)flatting range vs 4x: K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (8.4% of hands, 3betting range pretty much same as vs 3x) something like that...obv the bottom end of each range is debatable a bit. just remember that the more villain risks from his sb to win our bb, the less total hands we need to play oop. so the more he raises, the less and less we can flat - eventually we will reach a point where we are just 3bet shove/folding obv. also, the more villain risks from sb with his pfr, the more value there is in the fold equity we have when 3bet shoving (not that we have a ton vs the typical 3x'ing range, but i'm jamming some of the middling AX bc of card removal - dont think the typical 3x range is wide enough to include all A2-A7 though...too many total hand combos vs a nitty range imo)i'm interested to see what mers says though, so fwd to his thread if you want."
''Yeah I understood what you meant :) I was trying to guide you to ask better questions, which is one area you need work on. You're a very advanced player but asking the question "which flops should I c-bet?" is just not going to get you the kind of information that you want. As you get more and more skilled you should be learning how to ask more informed and more specific questions rather than just asking for basic percentages and generalities'' Yep you are right I should learn to ask better questions. But the problem is that I really don't know what to ask anymore. Half a year ago I diden't know shit and it felt like I doubled my skill level every month. Now I'm lucky if I get even 1% better. 90% of my mistakes is due to emotional stress such as running 50K under EV, playing to many tables and hours, getting bored and so on. I'm definitly very far from perfect strategy wise, but it's starting to get really hard to improve since I don't have any obvious weaknesses like I use to have.Posting hands and getting them answered definitly helps but it's a pretty slow and tedious process one tiny little brick at a time =).If you were in my situation what questions would you ask? How would you take your game to the next level? Some other questions I thought about today: When you play someone who opens to 45 instead of 40, what size do you 3b to?And what hands would hit the muck instead of a cold call, assuming we are playing 20-25bb deep and the person is opening 70-80%.I'm also a little bit unsure of what hands to flat vs a minraise 10-16bb deep. For example Greg diden't think 97o was good enough to flat 12bb deep and would either fold or 3bet ai. Would you ever flat T7o 12bb deep or is it also 3b or fold?What about hands like 65s, 75s, 85s, 96s, 86s and so on, what condtions have to be meet in order for you to flat 10-16bb deep?
"flatting range vs 2x:A9s-A2s,KTs-K2s,Q2s+,J3s+,T5s+,95s+,85s+,75s+,65s,ATo-A2o,KTo-K4o,Q6o+,J7o+,T7o+,98o,87o (43.1% of hands, 3betting another 12% approx - so 55% of total hands oop)"Readless I'm jamming A7s+ A8o+. You can call a bit wider - 54s, 74s, 97o etc def should be played, can make an argument for even wider with stuff like 96o, Q5o, 76o, etc. "flatting range vs 3x:A5s-A2s,K9s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o (14.2% of hands)"3xing range should be posted in this thread already in a response to chadders :) You can definitely play more hands. Folding 98s to a 3x is a sin. "3betting range vs 3x: 22+,A7s+,A8o+ (13.4%, so 27.6% oop...nittier bc i expect avg 3x range to be on nittier side too)"I think this is a good general sense of it. "flatting range vs 4x: K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,T9s,KTo+,QTo+,JTo (8.4% of hands, 3betting range pretty much same as vs 3x)"I wouldn't jam A7s/A8o over a 4x but it's reasonably close. Your flatting range seems OK.
"Some other questions I thought about today: When you play someone who opens to 45 instead of 40, what size do you 3b to?"I usually do 120/125 readless. "And what hands would hit the muck instead of a cold call, assuming we are playing 20-25bb deep and the person is opening 70-80%."It shouldn't make that much of a difference, it changes the math slightly but not a big deal. Basically it's just shaving off the edges, like 76o and stuff it now may be on the other side of the borderline. But since nobody is that precise to say "this hand you should play, this next best hand you should not play" in the first place to a minraise (we can come up with good estimations but not extremely precise ones), I could believe that 76o is a fold to both or a call to both. You don't need to adjust your play too much if 45 is the standard opening size, just very slight modifications at the edges, and if they're really opening that size 70-80%, slightly more 3bet jamming. "I'm also a little bit unsure of what hands to flat vs a minraise 10-16bb deep. For example Greg diden't think 97o was good enough to flat 12bb deep and would either fold or 3bet ai. Would you ever flat T7o 12bb deep or is it also 3b or fold?"This is one of the biggest unsolved questions in ST poker. I tend to believe 97o/T7o are folds readless 12bb deep but it's up for debate.As you get shorter, the worse your OOP expectation from flatting becomes, mostly because minraising ranges become tighter. So when you have a +EV jam it becomes even better to take it and when you don't there's sometimes not a lot of wiggle room to call against that minraising range you couldn't jam on in the first place. At different stack sizes that statement implies different things. There can be a sweet spot in there where your hand is 98s and you think you're getting induced a ton but you still feel you have the expectation to flat, or slightly weaker minraising ranges where T8o can't be jammed but can be flatted, etc. It's tough and I suspect very few people really feel super comfortable with these decisions."What about hands like 65s, 75s, 85s, 96s, 86s and so on, what condtions have to be meet in order for you to flat 10-16bb deep?"We're getting induced too much to jam but that inducing range contains enough unpaired hands that we can flat.
Against someone who 3bet-jams 38% for 20+bb, but lets me limp, which hands should I mr/call, mr/fold or limp ?Minraise/call KTs+, KJo+, QJs, A6s+ - limp stuff that plays well post-flop and minraise/fold some of the more trashy hands ?
Against someone who 3bet-jams 38% for 20+bb, but lets me limp, which hands should I mr/call, mr/fold or limp ?Minraise/call KTs+, KJo+, QJs, A6s+ - limp stuff that plays well post-flop and minraise/fold some of the more trashy hands ?I'd like to take a shot at this, and have Mers review my answer :) Nothing wrong with checking up on my own thought process a bit too."someone who jams 38% for 20+bb" - remember that there is going to be a pretty big difference in how you play certain hands 20 and 25 bb deep. so "20+" is a dangerous way to phrase this imo. A2o is a minraise call vs a 38% 3bet shover 20 deep, but a minraise fold 25 deep for example."but lets me limp" - we should be limping a range that can limp/call a high % of the time (so something like QJo down to 86s ... connected hands that realize equity well on flop). so whether villain raises our limps with a high frequency or not doesn't really effect our decision to have a limping range (unless he's just overbet shoving or 7x'ing or something insane and doing it a ton). obv this is unlikely, but if villan had a super low flatting frequency (or no flatting range) 20 deep and was just 3bet shoving 38%, we should raise our button with atc and print money bc he is folding his bb too much (i'd like it to be 45%ish or < for this to be max expectation though).20bb deep, i would mr/call 44+ A2o+ A2s+ KTo+ K9s+ QTs+polarize this raising range with K6o Q4s 95s T4s type stuff - hands that don't fair as well limped, but aren't total trash and can continue decent when villain flats.what do you think Mers?
"Against someone who 3bet-jams 38% for 20+bb, but lets me limp, which hands should I mr/call, mr/fold or limp ?"Minraise/call KTs+, KJo+, QJs, A6s+ - limp stuff that plays well post-flop and minraise/fold some of the more trashy hands ?"Basically, yeah. It depends how often he's folding, not just his 3betting range - the more often he folds the more likely you should be to be putting those trashy hands in your minraising range instead of limping in. Some slight disagreements with Hokie - I don't think 95s/T4s are the worst hands in the world to limp here, really the decision is what to do with K3o, 74o, 93s type stuff that kind of blows in limped pots but if he's letting us limp a lot it may well be better than openfolding, but raising may also be better if we're getting a decent amount of folds. Hokie's range looks fine if he really is jamming that wide - but usually the weakest aces will be folds against someone who seems to be jamming this wide because they're often not especially after you start adjusting your opening range.
I just have played with my stats on HM and find out that I play bad at BB when 20-25bb deep, with a -5.35 EV bb/100 in 14k BB hands (overall is 0.11 for BB and 9.73 for SB in all my 66k hands). I tried to figure out why and discover that the problem may come from the my flat range.HM filter: postition BB, eff stack 15-25bb, Preflop Actions Call, Allin Preflop = FalseHope I have set up the filter correctly. I run at -39.7 ev bb/100 in these 2151 flat hands (most are flat 2x). The results really shock me as I lost most EV chips on hands like JTo, 87o, Q8o, K6o, 98o,76o, T8s, 97s, K9o, Q9o, 98s. I thought these hands were all perfect hands for flat but I run at -200 ev bb/100 for these hands.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/flatloss.jpg/The top gainers are KTs, J9s, K5o, T9s, AA, KK, KTo, T9o, J7s, K8o, K8s.http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/flatwin.jpg/As I only have 20-70 sample hands for each one, to reduce the variance problem, I add one additional filter for Hole cards as K9o-K4o,QJo-Q5o,QJs-Q6s,Jo-J6o,JTs-J5s,T9-T6,98-96,87-86,76os. I still run at -68 EV bb/100 for these 1667 hands.If this is a big enough sample, it's a very serious problem for me and I have to fix this leak as soon as possible to stop bleeding money. Could you have a check on your ev bb/100 for these flat hands? And what does this suggest about my leaks? Play too fit or fold with these hands at BB of 15-25bb??
BB VPIP: 753bet: 24%Flop fold vs cbet: 29Check/Raise: 18Fold to 2 barrel: 40Aggressive vs limps What types of adjustments are you making against this player both pre and postflop? How wide are you opening preflop considering you aren't picking up the hand uncontested preflop or on the flop that often?
How many hands vs 1 player would you like to have before putting much stock into the following stats:-fold to cbet-3bet-fold to 3bet-fold to 2 barrel-flop check-raise-fold to flop check-raise Obviously we're also factoring in hands shown down, notes,etc... but it's nice to also have a good idea of how much stock to put into particular hud stats over different samples.
Is 33 the strongest pair you are raise/folding vs a jam 30bb deep? Do you ever prefer raise/calling or do you just raise/fold til 25bb & then jam?Also, if somebody 2.5x or 3x 3bets you with 30bb when you have 33, are you jamming as a standard or do you want to know they're an aggressive raiser 1st? I'm guessing jam as standard.
Against an 80% raiser do you think we should be flatting hands like K3o, Q5o, J6o, T6o, 96o, 86o, 76o, Q3s, J4s, & T4s? If so, do you think we should ever flat any wider, particularly if our opponent starts raising closer to 100%?FWIW, I would test them with some 3 bets with these hands 1st but many people defend too wide vs 3bets that it becomes -EV.
cross post from my thead:genereal jist is i think a readless nai3b bluff range as standard may be optimal, imo i think the freq should be relatively low but still there somewhat. In attempt to prove this mathematically...(cross post);ok so still on the think aloud train here, but i went into pt3 and checked the my success % rate for nai3b, then i realised this was pointless because the bluff part of the nai3b was likely 3b with reads to justify it so its a biased sample...so i took all my value hands that i would 3b nai3b regardless of opponent type (tbh tho this is still al a little biased since with my Ax hands i make nai3b as standard against semi competent people who def wont just call it off and 3bs otherwise/readless)so this is effectively my instances of readless nai3bs, with the sample a lil swayed to competent opponents (will run results without Ax to see diff); with 99+, AT+, KJ+, i have a nai3b% success rate of 56%, so not too far off our required 60%, and i imagine cbet % success rate is pretty high in 3b pots to make up for this. I think this coule be improved on, taking hands that are exclusively nai3b readless (so prob JJ-AA, KQ) and combine some samples to come up with a 3bsuccess% and a cbet success % in 3bpot, the numbers from these over any sample will probably conclusively prove whether a readless 3b bluff is profitableAlso with some of these hands we are comparing flattin/folding so if we take a hand like q4o, which we believe is not in our flatting range then we only have to beat -1bb/hand to justify a profitable 3bet, thus taking the % success rate of the 3b bluff to be profitable below the 50% mark right?gonna have a bit of fun with the maths later i guess, but for now just chucking round ideas, but i think that if we do come up with a range then it should be a static range such that are frequency of 3b bluffs is based entirely on hands, at a guess im thinkin someweak k/q/Jx, there are def enough hands in that range to make up a 5% bluff freq or something
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When thinking of maximizing hourly rate, is there a certain % you want your lowest buy-in to be when comparing it to your highest buy-in running?When I have a $1K running I don't register lower than $500. When I have a $500 running I don't generally register lower than $250. While I'm pretty damn sure it's -EV to register for a $150 with a $1K running, I could possibly be convinced otherwise with a $500 running, although I don't currently register for $150s w/ a $500 running.Without $500s & $1Ks running I'll sometimes register all the way down to $90, depending on how the action is. $500+ action is so hit and miss that I'd rather not just sit only in high stakes lobbies waiting if nothing is running. Once I get games running in the $250-$90 range the difference between my highest buy-in running & lowest buy-in I register for varies. If it's later in the week where my mind is warmed up better I'm usually willing to accept a wider gap between highest buy-in & lowest buy-in than earlier in the week, especially considering I'm playing less tables earlier in the week. Thanks for that article on warming up the mind throughout the week. I think that has helped a lot. I used to just 4-6 table pretty much all week.The worst is when I get a few $90-$250 running & a $1K pops off, or I sit a reg in a $90 & then instantly get sat in a $1K. This is bound to happen though and I think it's still worth registering for lower buy-ins with no $500/$1Ks running, although I could be convinced on where the optimal cutoff is (ex. higher than $90).Thoughts?
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