Beating Spin & Go Poker

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8tomo8's picture
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$ Net Adjusted

Hey, I noticed Coffees overlay net adjusted in the $ graph has been excluded from the image. Is there any reason why?

coffeeyay's picture
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Yes there is a reason I

Yes there is a reason I didn't include it. The overlay net adjusted does not work properly in spins. Instead you need to use the all-in equity adjusted chip line, which I do provide a graph of.

For full disclosure if I did include the overlay net adjusted it would be even higher than my actual results--according to the overlay net adjusted line I earned $14,678 in adjusted earnings and the corresponding EV ROI would be 10.87%--so clearly I was not hiding this to make my results look better but to provide the most accurate information.
 

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Thanks Coffee. I'm also

Thanks Coffee. I'm also wondering if this is a format where we should expect a positive steady climbing non sd chip graph similar to heads up games?

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Generally speaking, it's best

Generally speaking, it's best to ignore the showdown and the non-showdown lines. What is important is how much money your making, not where you are making it from. With all that being said, I believe that in the current metagame on stars spin and goes most winning players will likely be winning in showdowns and losing in non showdowns when often playing versus weaker players than themselves.

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Concept video was really

Concept video was really good.

I am poor at English, but there were a lot of slides, it's easy to understand.

But practical video is a little unsatisfactory.

last 3videos (put it together) are too much HU part.

Pre-flop push range is possible to rely on the software, but I( and most players also) do not accustomed to wide flatting.

so, It's a little frustrating to take time to refer chart everytime.

I wanted to see more 3ways video (preferably 2-4multi-tabling).

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Glad you enjoyed the concept

Glad you enjoyed the concept video.

I included more hours of hand histories compared to any other video pack released--almost all of it was 3-handed. However, I can definitely understand the desire to see even more hands--there haven't been many other plaeyrs releasing footage of spins play. I'll definitely work on creating some additional footage and will definitely include more hands, especially more situations of flatting wider hands and playing more post flop.

As for 2-4 tabling videos, that's something I tend to shy away from. I'm a firm believer that it is much better to review fewer hands in a more detailed an systematic manner in order to build understanding as to how I'm making my decisions, rather than going through a ton of hands quickly and only focusing on what decisions I'm making. However, I can definitely look to do some multi-tabling videos at some point if there's a lot of demand for it--I do understand that everyone has different learning styles and so while multitabling videos might not be my favorite they might be for others :)

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Any progress with the version

Any progress with the version for Mac OS? 

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Media Player Won't Move

I'm having an issue with the media player...It seems to be stuck on the screen and unable to be moved.  I restarted my computer and it's still giving me the same problem.  Is there some sort of option I accidentally clicked to make it immovable? 

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I haven't heard of this one.

I haven't heard of this one. If you're still having the issue, please email membership@husng.com and we'll figure out what the problem is and how to fix it. Thanks!

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Where are the vids?

Thanks 

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There is a download link

There is a download link after purchase in the main post of this thread.

If you're having any issues, please email us membership@husng.com and we'll make sure you're taken care of. Thanks!

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Vids

Is the videos just one long vid?  

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No, it is broken down in the

No, it is broken down in the original post (25 videos).

The file you download is one big file, but you'll be able to toggle between videos on the player.

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HU videos

Hello,

I played around 100 Spins at 5 and 7 with an ITM of 40% and 50$ profit.

I would like to increase my skills and buy this package, but i feel that 3 handed game is ok for me as a beginner but i lack the experience of heads up game.

 

What series of HU videos would you recommend buying before this in order to increase my HU game for the spins?

 

Thanks

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Pbogz's pack is very good and

Pbogz's pack is very good and contains lots of recreational focused material that is relevent to the spin and go player pool. The livably charity pack is extremely good value as his gameplay video is full of appliable strategy

The zztilt and phl500 pack is a comprehensive guide to 25bb heads up poker also, but is on the pricier side.

I personally wouldnt recommend the sentin pack, as I think the spin and go player pool arent exploited as hard by some of his strategy advice.

Glgl

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review&question regarding charts

I have bought this video pack which all-in-all was ok but nothing really special.

I really liked the slideshows, the videos however were pretty awkward, taking many minutes with useless practical stuff with like 6-10 standard hands and some badly filtered ones. The only part i liked about it was the theory stuff, the practical part was like 100% useless. The videos usually contained of reading out loud the stuff that were written in the slideshows, so i find it a bit disturbing that you didn't take the time for making a quality video. The theory part and the charts are great, as i said, however all the other stuff seems pretty useless. I think you should have selected or filtered your hands in practical videos better. That would be the end of the review part.

I would like to ask you about the "NASH BB 3WAY- BU is short stack" chart. It's also a bit disturbing that i only can use this chart with the original "NASH BB3WAY CALL" chart for 300$s. I decided to make a new chart where i would write the exact eff. numbers instead of this +1, -2,+xBB format.

My question is how is it possible that we should openshove 5+bbs with all our suited Ax hands, making A7s into a 13bb call vs allin but we should fold out our A8s and A9s  at 8 and 10bbs, just as if we all had the same stacks

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I ran into the same

I ran into the same question (on that chart and others).  FWIW, there is a footnote for hands with an "x" on the chart (like A8s, A9s, etc) stating that understanding the adjustments to those hands is irrelevant.  I'm not sure I understand why and could not recall or locate an explanation.

 

Speaking of calling 3-way, the KTo example at 5:52 in the video "Practical - BB Strategy: Facing Open Shoves" is confusing.  For KTs, the chart specifies calling with up to 10bb, but the explanation suggests it's a call at 25bb.  Can we really adjust THAT much in a low multiplier,?  Am I possibly looking at the wrong chart?

coffeeyay's picture
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Sorry about the confusion

Sorry about the confusion regarding the charts. The green "X" symbol represents hands that are already 20+ or are gaining gaining more than enough to make them 20+--this means that the actual # you end up with isn't relevant since it exists at a stack depth at which push/fold play is irrelevant so the exact number is irrelevant.  For example A8o is an 18bb shove, when SB is short it gains more than +2 leaving it at some number >20. Red "X" are similar lose a good amount of BB, but still remain 20+ anyways so it doesn't matter how much is lost. For example KK will be hurt but it will change it from like 100 to 80 so we don't care how much. This will be similar for other hands.

The basic concept though is just that once stacks get deep enough push/fold is not a relevant solution so it doesn't matter what the exact solution there is. I provide the direction in which it moves just to provide some extra understanding to help understand other situations, but I didn't see the need to provide the exact +12 for when the hand is already a 30bb shove or call of shove or whatever so I used the "X" instead. Definitely could have clarified this better though!

This segue ways nicely into your second question. The answer is that the chart is not relevant at 25bb because players aren't playing push/fold. This means that KTs can be a call because we do not expect our opponents to play push/fold with the top of their range--they will very rarely open shove the top hands, usually electing to min-raise or limp those hands. This often leaves open shove ranges weighted towards low pocket pairs and some weak/medium Ax hands (and occasional spew/bluffs) and can make hands like suited broadway better called than folded in terms of chipEV.

coffeeyay's picture
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Thanks for all the

Thanks for all the feedback!

Regarding the practicals videos I wonder how much this is a function of your skill level. The pack is intended to make sure that beginning players are set up with good habits and are able to beat spin and gos. For more experienced players many of the hands will appear standard, but for new players nothing is standard. I strongly believe that the basis of winning play is having a solid basic strategy and understanding--to do this requires going over basic hands to make sure that chips aren't being leaked in simple spots. Simple spots are the ones that come up over and over and require the most precision and confidence, in contrast more complicated hands will be less common and therefore not help as much towards building winrate. Therefore it made sense to cover as many basic simple spots as possible at the expense of more complicated hands in order to help people's winrates as much as possible. In the end there is almost 8 hours worth of hand review content so it's tough for every hand to be useful to everyone, so it's rough to hear that 100% of that content was useless to you.

In any case, there have been other comments regarding practicals hands requesting more interesting spots and so I've decided to add some bonus content to the spin pack. I'll be adding around two hours of bonus footage all going over interesting hands, most at the $60 level on Stars (at the time the highest stakes available). Hopefully this will provide you with even more insight and help boost your winrate even more!

Regarding your first question the format of the charts was built to provide maximum understanding to the situation. By using the +- format it emphasizes how things change from the base case, which allows for understanding the situation better. To me this was more important that the exact numbers because the understanding allows you to approach spots with different S1 S2 ratios, while the actual results only help for that one situation where S2 = 2*S1. This makes the charts more useful for off-the table study but you're right that it makes them less useful in-game. That being said I think going through and making those charts by applying the differences is a good exercise and is likely best left to the watcher anyways--I think there is quite a bit of value and going through and understanding the cutoffs at each depth for each hand.

As for your last question I wasn't able to understand your situation. Can you be more specific with regards to what hero's position is and what effective stacks and position of short stack you're talking about? Currently it's hard to figure out what you mean because you first talk about open-shoving and after that about calling vs shoves. Hopefully I've answered your question above when I replied to Olympic Gold but if not please rephrase your question and I'll be happy to answer it.

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Very nice pack so far. 1/3 of

Very nice pack so far. 1/3 of the way through and very much enjoying the theory aspect of these videos and the pack is professionally made imo. I have a series of questions, but something I'd most like to know or see, which isn't included is how to extract population tendencies from my hand histories for spins? Is this possible in PT4?

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It is not currently possible

It is not currently possible in Spins. Per Dave:

"A prerequisite of making an alias in PT4 is that no villain ever plays against each other. So this works HU, where villains only ever play against hero (given no observed HH imported).

In a 3+ handed game, obviously villains are playing at the same table as each other all the time.

You're either gonna need to use HM, or direct SQL queries with PGAdmin to get the data."

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Ok, thanks Ryan!

Ok, thanks Ryan!

coffeeyay's picture
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Thanks for the nice

Thanks for the nice comments!

You can extract some population frequencies from PT4, but can't do hand range visualization. To do frequencies there are two good methods--which to use will depend on the frequencies you are looking for.

1. Reports->All-Players Report->More Filters...->Add Filter->Hand Details->Player is Hero->ON->Add to filter->Select this filter by clickin on it->'NOT' Selected
Now you can just choose stats and it will provide population averages at the bottom. You can even export these reports and do stuff like compute standard deviations of stats. The limitation with this method is you have to have stats built that find the tendencies you're interested in--sometimes this requires building custom stats as regular stats won't work for your situation.

2. Reports->Player Report(optional: ->Next->Position or other grouping--example bet size)
Now you can use the Hands stat together with combination filters from More Filters to track opportunities vs occurrences so that you can divide one by the other to get frequency at which stuff happened to you. For example, you can filter for times you cbet->note down the number of hands->then filter for times you faced a raise after cbetting->just down number of hands, divide second number by first and you have population's x/r frequency. This method can take a long time but allows you to find frequencies in a ton of situations with no needed custom stats and also lets you do more advanced work like filtering for stack size and effective stacks again without having to build tons of new stats.

Hope that helps!

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Just seen this. Thanks for

Just seen this. Thanks for the reply coffeeyay! I managed to get some pop stats out of hem2 during trial period, but this is a great help. Great pack for my needs :)

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Well after watching the

Well after watching the samples and reading the reviews i think you got me. I used to be a live 1/3 2/5 pro and i stopped playing for a bit (relationship stuff didn't go bust) and then ended up moving to far from a casino to drive daily. I switched to playing online to get back to what i love which is poker. I started playing full ring 25 nl moved to 6 max 25nl and then 6 max 50nl. And i was doing well making about 800 a week average. But after 5 years of grinding cash games i think its time to add aomething new to my game. I currently have about 35k saved up so i realistically could jump into the 40s but i want to do it right and work my way up. So im gonna start with 1k for a br use 300 for this vid pack, and 700 to play with. Idk if i should start at the 2s and wait to see how i do then move to 10s or just start at the 10s. Either way im glad u released this it should be fun Cant wait to get this and get started. Will be purchasing soon

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I really like the way you're

I really like the way you're approaching things. Just beware of the rake. If the $2s rake % is much higher than $10s, I'd just go straight into $10s (lowest level with reasonable rake would be the best decision I think).

Good luck on the way up!

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Qus about pack and bankroll required

Hi I am interested in buying the pack but first I'm just wondering what kind of bankroll strategy you would recommend for these games. I saw you said that you recommend moving up in stakes in spin and go's once you had a 37% winrate or higher. But what kind of sample is this over?Is 2k games enough or would you recommend more or less. I want to move up as quickly as possible and I don't mind jumping around stakes a lot. I have an roi of 3-4% in 7$ hypers so I would imagine I would be able to beat the low stakes fairly easily. Any reply would be appreciated. Thanks.

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We're at the poker camp, so

We're at the poker camp, so Adam is next to me as I type his words: "In the pack I go through a detailed bankroll management strategy that you can customize to yourself. If you don't mind moving up and down, the pack should have a good strategy for you to stick to. I think 2k games is a good # for 37% winrate, and I agree, that you'll likely be off to a solid start beginning in Spins given your success so far in $7 hypers."
 

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Spin Pack Bonus Content

Hi Coffeeyay , I bought your spin pack and it's helped me a lot! Above you wrote:

In any case, there have been other comments regarding practicals hands requesting more interesting spots and so I've decided to add some bonus content to the spin pack. I'll be adding around two hours of bonus footage all going over interesting hands, most at the $60 level on Stars (at the time the highest stakes available). Hopefully this will provide you with even more insight and help boost your winrate even more!

Is this going to happen and be available to players who bought your pack? I know you just wrapped up poker camp so there might be a delay?

 

Thanks

janmoh

 

 

 

 

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Spin and Go 60$ level

Hi Coffeeyay,

I want to buy this pack but i read that you will add a bonus pack of 2 hours for the 60$. Did you add it? And if not when you will add it? I will buy this pack next second you add the bonus pach.

Best Regards,

Alex

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Bonus Content

Hey guys,

Bonus content should be released soon. Dealing with some delays due to all of the recent changes to spins--I wanted to make sure to provide content at the 100s. That plus the poker camp which occupied a lot of my time :( Should be done very soon though! Hopefully by the end of this month, certainly by the end of next.

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Hy coffeeyay, Thanks for this

Hy coffeeyay,

Thanks for this fast answer. I have the following question shall i wait to when you release this bonus pack? If i buy it now you will also send me the bonus content when you release it?

Alex

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Everyone who bought the pack

Everyone who bought the pack will get free access to the bonus content.

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Bonus content

Hi I want to know when the bonus content will be realise. Thanks

RyPac13's picture
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We're finishing up on the

We're finishing up on the editing as we speak. So very soon!

rixrax's picture
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Button open charts

Hi,

Just bought the package and just watched couple of first videos.

I'm a bit disappointed to see that there are no charts for open min raising from button.

Nash charts are there, which is good ofc, but those don't apply until we get short.

I'm more "chart guy" and while learning I'd like to rely on charts.

For example, I'm on button 15bb deep with Q8o, what should I do? I'd like to check that from chart, should I fold, min raise -fold, min raise - call or just fold.

And the point is not the Q8o but all the hands...

 

Am I missing something or are there such charts lurking somewhere...? :)

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Hi! You are right, the pack

Hi!

You are right, the pack does not contain pre-flop ranges. This is because correct ranges depend on the population you're playing against, and quickly become irrelevant once you get reads. Instead I elected to give you the tools to build your own ranges, that way no matter how you believe the population plays you can still adjust and have a strong pre-flop game.

I'd recommend going through and building your own charts at each stack. Do your best with every hand, and then after discuss it with a coach or another player. The process of going through and figuring out what to do with each hand is extremely educational, and in the end you'll end up with personalized ranges :)

Good luck!

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Learning to play in a multiway pot

Hello,

I play mainly HUSNG turbo and regular. Recently I started to think about playing some live poker in a casino. MTT's for a start and maybe cash games later. As a husng player I have a good understanding of HU play, but I dont feel that confident in a multiway. Recently I thought about playing some spin and goes in order to impreve my 3 way pot skills.

Do you think its a good idea to learn spin and go strategy to improve my multiway pot skills?

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It will help you a lot 3

It will help you a lot 3 handed. It should also help even further HU. It may have an impact on 4 handed too.

At 5+ handed, I would recommend considering 6 max SNG material (as an example, we have ILS 6 max pack which is very solid up on sitngogrinders.com).

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download

Hello

Do I need permanent internet connection to watch this video pack?

 

Thanks

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No, you just need one at the

No, you just need one at the start to input your key. Once you verify your key you can watch it without worries on that computer offline.

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Bonus content

Hi guys -

Just wondering if the new content has been released yet.  If so, how do I get it?  If not, should I just keep checking here?

Thanks!

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New content

is the holiday gift ready for unwrapping yet?  :)

ThaSquirrel's picture
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Software not working anymore

I cannot access the data anymore, i get the following message:
Error when accessing the application data. Reinstall the application and try again. 
If the error recurs, click "Error report" and send the report to product technical support.

 

I'm on windows 10

RyPac13's picture
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Hi, send us an email with

Hi, send us an email with that error report and we can take a look.

Thanks!

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Extra coverage

Happy new year guys! All the best to all of you in 2016!

 

What's the latest on the extra coverage promised by Coffeeyay for people who subscribed to his pack? It would be instructive and fascinating to see how he played a few spin and go's.

 

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I am no where near being able

I am no where near being able to afford this software but hopefully in few months I will have gathered enough money to, this seems really worth it. I've Been studying/reading eBooks for the past weeks to get my game better, along with my big lack of self discipline, who knows maybe in few years from now I will be owning a steady poker bankroll, thank you for your hard work making this software however!

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January 22, 2016 -
RyPac13's picture
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Bonus material has been up on

Bonus material has been up on the download page for over a week now!

If you bought the pack through the site (paypal/skrill) you should have access to the download page right now, so check it out.

If you bought it manually (via email with support), then email us and we'll get your access restored for that.

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Oh... Thank you! :)

Oh... Thank you! :)