Hi,I've been looking into superturbos lately and I must say I am hooked on them! And here is what I am thinking about shoving over loose 3bets - please let me know if it makes sense. Suppose effective stack is ES >= 12 BBs and hero opens from SB 2x. Villain 3bets to 4 BBs X% where for simplicity's sake let's say X is one of 10/20/30/40%. Let's say hero shoves now. Suppose that villain at this point will automagically see hero's cards and call only those hands that are +EV for him. What should hero shove for him to show profit? If villain 3bet is 40% I wrote a program that computes this and I get this range for effective stack 15: 22+,A2+,K9o+,K6s+,QTo+,Q9s+,JTs which is roughly 29.11% of hands This would be like Sklansky-Chubukov numbers except that villain sees hero's hand only after he 3bets and if he 3bets too large even if he sees hero's hand he might have a losing strategy. Now: in reality villains don't see hero's hand. So what if we add to hero's shoving range some bluffs, let's say suited connectors and some offsuit connectors ? Like say T9s-54s, J9s-64s, J8s, JTo-54o roughly 10% of hands ... in this case we have 3:1 ratio between nuts:air (yes I shamelessly modelled this after BobboFito's golden ratio concept!) for hands hero is shoving, and instead of shoving 29% of hands he will shove now close to 40% if villain 3bets 40%+. Moreover if villain happens to land a good hand and call and hero has one of those 'bluffs' hands then this is +EV for future matches since villain will think hero is shoving pretty loose.
I haven't had time to really go through this in depth.However, just from playing a few thousand super turbos, I don't believe a single player had a 3bet % over 40 against me (I opened every hand vs a majority of opponents at 15-25bb stacks and often lower).Further, most that 3bet wide were 3bet shoving at 15bb or less a majority of the time.That being said, there is of course value in looking at this sort of stuff, especially if you play super turbos. I'd look more towards some of the less bluff heavy and narrower 3bet ranges at slightly deeper stacks though, to maximize the real value that you get out of this.Example: 25% 3bettor that mixes in some air at 20-25bbs and raises to 2-2.5x your minraise (so he'll put in 4 to 5bbs). I think that is much more directly applicable to a wider range of opponents you'll actually meet in these.