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FeralAce's picture
over pair on flop, do I get it in?

No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$1.38+$0.12 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1170  SBthevillian741830  Effective Stacks: 39bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB   thevillian74 raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero bets 80, thevillian74 raises to 160, Hero calls 80 Turn (440, 2 players) Hero checks, thevillian74 checks River (440, 2 players) Hero bets 200, thevillian74 calls 200 Final Pot: 840How did I play this hand? The thing I'm wondering about is should I have 3 bet the flop? The villain is very straight forrward and defintiely has something but I think I maybe should have tried to get it all in on the flop. If so, would I 3 bet shove?As played, I checked the turn given he was the last aggressor on the previous street. On the river I felt I had the best hand so was after value. any thoughts? Thanks.  

FeralAce's picture
My hand is JJ

My hand is JJ, for some reason it didn't come up correctly in the hnad converter.

longjohn's picture
I think you should be

I think you should be 3betting this pre flop every time was there any reason you didn't? and on the flop I think you should be checking to let him cbet rather than leading into him

FeralAce's picture
Thanks

Yeah, normally I would 3 bet this pre. I guess I fell into a sort of robot like response to this villian becuase he was so straight forward and always telling me where I was at.As far as donking into him goes, I don't know why I did that. Thanks for your help.Cheers.

happyham's picture
In a vacuum of just this one

In a vacuum of just this one hand I would have played it different with every decision.  With a hand like JJ there is no reason why you should not be 3 betting pre flop.  Unless he folds to 100% of 3 bets (which if he is unknown, then obviously you don't know this), you should be looking to build big pots with your strong hands.  Especially in the micro stakes.  As played, on the flop I agree with Longjohn.  Assuming he is C betting a reasonable amount, check raising I think will be best.  I doubt that he is any good at hand reading, but if he is then you have a very disguised overpair to the board that he won't be able to give you credit for.  As played, when he min raises your donk bet, you have to raise it.  Its all about building the pot so he feels more and more committed to the hand on later streets.  I would make it 380-400.  If he is playing straight forward then he is most likely to have TX here. The turn I would lead again, because I think a large portion of his range will be TX (maybe combo draw hands).  I think you played this far too tricky vs someone who you say is straight forward and is showing you that he has a hand.  Just value bet. River as played, I would bet around 300, because again I believe he is not going to fold, and I think you have a better hand than him very often.  Building the pot with strong hands is much better than tricky play vs an unknown in the long run. 

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FeralAce's picture
Thansk happyham for the great

Thansk happyham for the great rundown. You're spot on - he did have Tx.

chadalicious's picture
def 3 betting this pre 99% of

def 3 betting this pre 99% of the time.Dont mind the flop lead,if villain is straight forward i doubt he is cbetting this board a ton,Ax Kx Qx are checking back a ton as this flop although not the wettest texture does hit our percieved calling range pretty well.I think villain is much more likely to float his overs than cbet them at this point. the only real draws on this flop are 87 and 43,does villain have 43 in his range?...probably,but it is most likely to be suited where as he may be more inclined to open 87o than 43oonce villain min raises in pretty sure we can rule most over card hand out of his range,small raises like this can usually mean the nuts,so a set at this point though sets are hard to come by,over pairs  AA KK QQ JJ, draws,which is mostly 87 here and the occasional 43,and Tx. put this into poker stove and our equity vs his range looks like thisText results appended to pokerstove.txt 132,660  games     0.003 secs    44,220,000  games/secBoard: Td 6h 5cDead:      equity     win     tie           pots won     pots tied    Hand 0:     62.407%      62.03%     00.37%              82294           495.00   { JhJs }Hand 1:     37.593%      37.22%     00.37%              49376           495.00   { 99+, 66-55, ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T6s+, 87s, 43s, ATo, KTo, QTo, JTo, T7o+, 87o }--- given that there are way more Tx,87 combos than anything else we can assume this makes up the bulk of villains range,the only hand in this range that might fold is 99,88 if we raise,87 is calling a ton,Tx is rarely if ever folding.raising is definitely better than calling here,350-400 seems about right.if villain jams we call,if he flats we jam the turn def leading the turn again for the same reasons above,villain is never folding Tx,may call again with his draws,probably jamming his boats OPs. (but idk if i can bring myself to fold here to a turn jam given the bulk of his range is Tx)and i am looking to get stacks in by the river.betting somewhere between 245-290. on the river the question isnt if you have the best hand,but will worse call,if worse hands can never call then a bet is -EV. here this is not the case as there are tons of Tx hand that are calling our river bet,im leaning towards betting somewhat large here to extract max value from Tx hands,something between 300-400.the lower end if we think he will fold weaker Tx to a bigger bet but at these stakes villains rarely if ever fold TP on the river on such dry boards so im leaning more towards the  higher end.