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bonafontz's picture
Cog Dissonance

Hey guys!I just finished watching some Cog Dissonance videos and I have to say I really love his style and I think it would fit me quite well. However, I have some questions.Why is he the only one using it? Of all the videos I saw, agression seems to be the key. (here or elsewhere) Moreover, it seems that most people consider limping that much as a mistake. So, do you think his style is mostly flawed but works because in hands of a very skilled individual or do you think that playing like this could bring strong results even for someone who is just starting to learn the basics?If you have some arguments for or against, I would gladly like to hear it. Or maybe Cog Dissonance himself could give some reasons of why he thinks using this style is good.ThanksMR

RyPac13's picture
Many people have

Many people have copied/applied directly his style of play as best they could.  Many do see good results.I think it's not so much the limping that makes Cog a strong player, it's the way he's always thinking about how his opponents are playing and figuring out how to best adjust to them postflop.  If I had to guess, I'd say he limps more than he needs to, but I'd also say that the rest of us (myself included and probably all the instructors) don't limp enough.  But we all usually make decisions that are either the absolute best (as far as limping vs raising goes) or extremely close to one another in value, if you really got into it an analyzed it and determined the EV (fairly complicated and time consuming, no doubt).If you're fully paying attention and applying his thought process to your game, I think you should have no issues being a very strong and ultimately fairly profitable player.  Just make sure you're not just limping and betting small and assuming that's his style, I see a lot of people do that with him (and even more with BrokerStar, one of his students and tagpoker guy).  What ends up with those people is they get frustrated, assume limping is for fish, then come to me or Fydor or someone else for coaching and tell us "Cog/Broker taught me to limp, I didn't like it."  Almost all the time those players have issues unrelated to preflop play (or their preflop issues tend to be amplified because they don't know why or where to raise, how to react when facing stations or 3bettors and so on).  That's when I can tell that they did not take the proper value from their sessions or viewing with these coaches, instead they were just looking for a "all in one box" type strategy, and that is not going to work well for heads up poker.  You have to be very adaptive and constantly focusing and thinking to succeed, and I think that's Cog's greatest strength and ultimately value to this site and his students.

qattack's picture
I watched some of Cog's

I watched some of Cog's (Paul) videos about six weeks ago and attempted to duplicate his style. It was a disaster for me, as it took me completely out of my comfort zone.A couple weeks ago, after watching many other videos, i came back to a couple of his videos and again attempted to use his style. I Find it much more comfortable now.Basically, Paul controls pot sizes and develops reads by trying different things in the first few hands (raising limps, 3B, limping to see if his opponent will attack him, etc.). He does not base these actions quite so much on hand strength; rather, he's just experimenting to see his opponent's reacions.By keeping the pots small, he better use his skill advantage and he also has more room to manipulate his opponents.In the next week, I'm going to be hitting most of his Standard videos. Paul seems to be the king of explaining how to read and exploit different playing styles.

Nomboo's picture
Cog

For me it is very nerve racking to limp most hands, I find xSCWx's style to be closest to mine. Limping is very good against super aggro players though, so if I see my opponent is a maniac then I will employ Cog's style.

latilen's picture
Limping style that was almost

Limping style that was almost patented by Paul seems to be very profitable in low stakes (5,10$) and middle (20-50$) stakes. I wonder, is it usefull on 100$ games?

cog dissonance's picture
"Limping style that was

"Limping style that was almost patented by Paul seems to be very profitable in low stakes (5,10$) and middle (20-50$) stakes. I wonder, is it usefull on 100$ games?" Yeah I ran at 11% at the 100's over a decent sample.I rhink its doesn't really matter so much what you do preflop as long as it helps you read your opponents well. For some people this is raising, for others, limping.

Skype/AIM- cogdissonance1

RyPac13's picture
Sharkscope Paul and you can

Sharkscope Paul and you can get an answer for that ;)But to fully answer, certainly.  I don't think the average opponent has the skills to fully detract from a limping player's possible value short comings from the button until at least the $500 level.  And then, only because there are some very good, correctly fast adjusting players that will stalk somebody over and over at the $500+ level.  If you found a way to avoid those types, you would probably still do very well in those games even.I'm speaking about Cog more than the "style."  As I said, Cog's limping (in my mind) is a reflection of how he plays, not the reason for his success.

JackTheShipper's picture
i primarly play deepstacks,

i primarly play deepstacks, where i find it easier to just minraise ATC then limp otb but when i do play 100$ games at the reg speeds and 80$ i often employ a very similair style to cogs where i limp a shitton of hands because stacks are shorter in reg speeds, then in deeps obviously, i find myself wanting to be more concervative with my chips, but still remain my post flop edge / ability maximized, therefor i opted to limp, imo if u do it very well balanced this can be incredibly strong even versus regulars, 15 mins ago +- i just played a reg at 100$ level who is up 44K lifetime, in a regular speed game, i limped often, tho not always and tried to raise hands for value pre, as well as raise some junk, but the majority of hands, i limped eitherway after 30ish hands he is down to 600 chips, and i get QQ i limp, and he jams, i call and i win the game, imo limping and playing more concervatively can improve ur game tremendously especially versus bad opponents who will often spew off chips, or go on crazy bluffs, also it will give u a nice edge pot control wise, since u limp, pot is pretty small, and u will have to check/raise at some point if u want to make it bigger, but u can also make some marginal calls in small pots for information on villain, im really happy with a bit of limping compared to MRing btns in reg speeds and i do think it is a powerfull weapon, when used well, (balanced and also still raise some) but like everything in HU its sometimes villain dependent, vs some villains limping will make u miserable, while vs others, it will allow them to valuetown themself into ur monsters just my 2 cents tho, might be wrong ;)

latilen's picture
I resorted to limping because

I resorted to limping because it gives me more control over the pot, I tend to get lost when I open 3bb 80%+ vs. extra LAG guys, not finding the spots to 4bet often etc. , also, I tilt less often due to more predictable play from villains. Had a huge tilt problem and when playing an agressive style it is sooo much easier getting your chips in even when on the tiniest of tilts. Thanks for all the vids Paul, hope to see you coaching regular speed again. I was getting ready to apply for your beginners course and you stopped teaching it.  

JackTheShipper's picture
same for me, i do fine atm,

same for me, i do fine atm, but i really regret never having received any coaching from you