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Mr Monkeytilt's picture
Thin value on river?

This was the 2nd hand of the match, and just prior to the one in question in order to give my view on the villian (no prior matches with him).No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$6 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBThe Scondo1515 BBHero1485  Effective Stacks: 50bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB The Scondo calls 15, Hero checks Flop (60, 2 players) Hero checks, The Scondo checks Turn (60, 2 players) Hero checks, The Scondo bets 30, Hero calls 30 River (120, 2 players) Hero checks, The Scondo checks Final Pot: 120 The Scondo shows a pair of Queens Hero shows The Scondo wins 120 ( won +60 ) Hero lost -60I'm not asking about the above hand, I called that turn bet for information to see what he was doing that with because it was so cheap/early and I felt it would benefit me later. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players$6 + $0.25 Heads Up Sit & Go Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBThe Scondo1575 SBHero1425  Effective Stacks: 48bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 75, The Scondo calls 45 Flop (150, 2 players) The Scondo checks, Hero bets 90, The Scondo calls 90 Turn (330, 2 players) The Scondo checks, Hero bets 90, The Scondo calls 90 River (510, 2 players) The Scondo checks, Hero checks Final Pot: 510 The Scondo shows Hero shows a pair of Tens Hero wins 510 ( won +255 ) The Scondo lost -255Given the previous hand, I figured him to be passive and probably tight because he did bet but shut down when called on the turn and another over came on the river. I expected him to have a decent hand when he called preflop OOP, but on the flop I hit middle pair and fired a cbet because he could call with flush draws, straight draws, or maybe a 7 because him being tight was likely but not established this early. On the turn my bet was very weak looking back and would not have been likely to scare away any draw, I am thinking it would have been better to fire something in the range of 175-200 to charge draws if he was on one. Given the turn sizing, I had no new information on what he was holding. On the river a pretty bad card came out because 98 got there, as well as flush draws, and he still could have me beat with a better T or any Q so I just figured I had better check it back and see what he had rather than get into a situation where I either valuetown myself or get checkraised by a monster. I didn't see him calling with much worse when there is so many straight draws, a flush draw, and overcards to 2nd pair. Should I have bet at this river for value or was checking back a better idea? When I saw his hand I immediately thought I'd lost value but reviewing this hand I think it was better that I not bet at it.

jaymzz's picture
With middle pair (good

With middle pair (good kicker) against a tight player I'm usually looking for 2 streets/bets for value. In this situations are a lot of draws on the board so i would go for my two streets on the flop and turn.I would cbet bigger in this spot 120-150, and something like 230-260 on turn/ or checking behind on turn and calling/betting river when no obvious draws complete 

RyPac13's picture
Definitely bet larger on the

Definitely bet larger on the turn, you want to charge the passive draws here and weaker pairs.  He can certainly have a stronger hand here (evidenced by the way he played QQ previously) but you should be ahead of his range enough to place a solid value bet, and he should be calling with enough pairs/draws to make that a good bet.Back to hand 1, I like a stab at those type of flops often, by default, against an unknown player.  If you do check, betting the turn isn't a bad idea either, it gives you fold equity as opposed to check/calling with 5 hi, hoping to hit 8 outs (16% liklihood) and losing almost every other time you miss those outs.  Basically you're winning the pot with the possibility of more value 16% of the time, 12% of the time you hit a pair and may win at showdown but may also get value bet and lose more chips, and the other 72% of the time you have 5 hi and lose.  Information or not, that's probably not a good bet to call!