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mersenneary's picture
Some thoughts about reacting to people who 3bet wide 30-75bb deep

We've had a thread about when to 3-bet light from the BB at these stack depths, but zZzTilt suggsted a thread on the opposite issue - what to do when you're that reg who's getting 3bet a lot. How do you adjust? There are a lot of things to say, so I'm just going to list out some adjustments and things to think about.1) Shortstacked, I often advise limping against frequent 3-bettors with hands that flop well but aren't quite strong enough to call a 3-bet jam. The same concept can be applied to deeper stacked play. Think about those hands that aren't quite strong enough to call a potsized 3bet: T7o, J8o Q8o, K8o, Q6s, etc. These hands can work great in a limping range, primarily because they're all strong enough to call a 3x raise and play great in limped pots. After that, it goes all the way back to my first video for the site: Having a middling limping range allows you to have a raising range with a higher % of hands that are jamming over the 3bet, which forces your opponent to adjust and not 3bet so much. If he keeps the same 3betting percentage, the new strength of your raising range eats him up. Furthermore, I'd argue limping actually has significantly better expectation with these hands than minraise/folding against a frequent 3bettor, so you're not just improving the expectation when you raise, you're doing better with the hands you take out.2) 4bet wider. I think any pair is a get-it-in over a 3bet anyway <50bb deep readless, but you can extend that to 75bb deep against a frequent 3bettor. Suited Ax hands have to be jammed as well. Whether or not to develop a 4bet bluffing range depends on the qualities of your opponent - against most maniacs who 3bet wide, they get it in super wide as well, and it's a mistake to try to 4bet bluff. Against good, thinking regs who keep raising from t60 to t150 every hand though 40-50bb deep, it's essential to develop a 4bet bluffing range.3) Pay serious attention to gameflow, especially against thinking regs, who will be really, really transperant about this. BustedWadZ, for example, is a player who 3bets wide but is horrifically transparent about it gameflow wise - if he hasn't 3bet in a while, there's a very high chance he's bluffing, and if he just 3bet or made some fancy move the previous hand and won the pot, he'll rarely ever 3bet wide right after it. A lot of regs are like this, really trying to space out their 3bets because of the impression that a 3rd 3bet in 4 hands is going to be treated as weak, an opponent going crazy with aggression. In actuality, this is going to be very strong from a lot of opponents, and while you can level yourself all day about it, most thinking opponents tend to be on the second level.4) If your opponent has a fold button, you can't just play fit or fold on the flop. The wider your opponent's 3betting range, the more of their range will have missed the flop. Especially if you have a nitty image and your opponent is not a calling station, you have to take advantage of the fact that when you call a 3bet with 89s and the flop comes J72, your opponent's % of overpairs and Jx is far lower than if he were 3betting a tight range. Pick your spots to contest, especially when you can represent hands and you haven't been getting too out of line.5) Whether or not you should fold more of your weak hands preflop from the button depends on how many hands your opponent is playing OOP. He can be 3betting 40%, and if he never flats, it's still correct to raise it up with your 23o. The higher his VPIP in the big blind is, the more junky hands you should fold.6) Figure out what he's 3betting with. If he's 3betting a polarized range (strong hands and much weaker stuff), that's a great recipe to start 4bet bluffing somewhat small. Additionally, what he's 3betting with tells you a great deal about how to play pots when he just calls OOP. If he 3bets really wide for value (lots of Ax/Kx), you should give him even less credit on ace high and king high boards when he flats, and you should be prepared to 3bet bluff the flop when he check/raises dry Axy type boards. I think this is something people understand in theory, but do a poor job of actually applying in-game. Sometimes, the most important thing you learn from seeing hands in a certain range, is that they're NOT in another range, and to react accordingly. The best example of this is that I think people generally do a horrific job of changing their c-betting range against opponents who donkbet frequently for value (it's correct to c-bet very wide against these opponents). Obviously there's a lot more to say, so feel free to ask questions about different aspects of it.mers

sament's picture
Mers i bump this thread

Mers i bump this thread because I found it very useful and I have a few questions.What about the size of the 3bet? If our opponent is 3betting 30-40% and flat calling the rest and he 3bets something like t60-t100/t40-t100, should I still 4bet shoving 50bb-75bb deep or it's too spewy and I should 4bet small? For example I've found myself 4betting to t300 with KQ, getting called almost always and had a hard time when I missed the flop because any cbet would committ me. Hands like J6s, K6s, Q7s...I know I have the odds to flat call the 3bet with them (givin that range), but they don't play very well postflop and I don't think I'm that good against his get it in range on a flop J54 when I hold J6s. 

 

mersenneary's picture
It depends on the properties

It depends on the properties of your hand, yeah. Small pocket pairs and weaker Ax generally play a ton better either to jam or flat depending on how depe you are, whereas a hand like KQ is prime for a non-allin 3bet.All three other hands seem like calls to me to smaller 3bets."I don't think I'm that good against his get it in range on a flop J54 when I hold J6s."Let's talk about this. If your opponent is 3betting wide, one of two things HAS to be true:1. Your opponent is firing often enough for top pair to be a calldown.2. Your opponent isn't firing all that often and we shouldn't be that scared of what to do when he does.