Hi guys, the first post obv is an introduction one...I'm ServerBTest002, 25 years old and european player.I'm playing mainly on a very very soft european site the 100+ euros (I also play on others sites too, 100$+) , the fishes are huge and the regs aren't strong, they haven't studied the game and they are winnings because they respect each other and obv, they are playing only vs fishes. I play both, fishes and regs, they are easy to exploit and they have a lot of leaks... I'm here because I'm on a 8k games even stretch, so I got def some huge leak in my game that I wanna fix...This thread will be about correct counter strategies vs regs and obv HHs, I will not share regs screenames but when I'll post a hand I'll include updated readsGl guys
gl man, i will check this thread regulary )
Sounds good! I specialize in getting people out of breakeven funks :)
I'm running also 150 buy ins below expected, but I need some leak fix for sure... I'll post more later :)
God. Post graph?
The graph is missing some games... the games that I play from my laptop, but below you can see how I'm currently running :
Just yuck. I'll ship one kilo of "mers dust" in your direction.
Ok, 1st question... (when I post questions I'm looking to understand and have confirmation of concepts... I don't look for a static reply, what I want is to understand the concepts in order to apply them correcly in other spots, so, my quesions will have a lot of sub questions)As said before I'm playing on european sites and the games are full of fishes, but I can't crush the game for basically 2 reason: 1. I'm running really bad, specially in all in pre flop 2. My game is far from perfect and maybe I didn't adapt myself correctly.All players have all the same major leak: calling too much preflop and c/f way toooooo much, they usually don't 3bet... yes... most of them play like that and the winners play the same fishy fir ot fold style without look for strange draws or without calling 3 streets with 4th pair. This is the really only difference between winners and losers where I'm playing. Since the top winner in the network is folding 98 from the sb I thought maybe my style isn't effective like I thought.If villains are calling too often pre and c/f too much is better to raise big preflop and cbet often... why?1. Obv we want to win as many chips as we can, and if villains don't fight enough for a pot, we can cbet 1/2 and take it down most of the times.2. Since is c/f too much, our cards doesn't count... we should raise close to 100% and cbet often avoiding difficult spot where flops hits villain calling rangePretty basic, I hope it is correctSo, if we're 75BBs we should 3x from the btn and cbet 1/2 pot very often... but right now I'm only minraising because I want to keep the pot small and inflate it when I have a hand.... lol this is complete the opposite of what I've said a minute before, what's wrong with that? The main reason is... I want exploit the leak of c/f too much, but at the same time I think I'm losing many medium size pots with mid holdings... because if I hit something it's hard to get away from, most of the times I 2nd barrel and find out villain got me beat lol ... so how can I find if it is true using HM?BTW, the top winner of the network (see his graph below) is folding 98 from sb full stack... that's why I'm wondering about my strategy...
I think you should check for the filter Turn Continuation Bet Made = True or something like that. That's 2barrell for HEM.
It does make sense except that I'd still 4bet premium pairs and I'd probably 4bet a little bit bigger with these trashy hands If he's 3bet range is weak, we can't 4bet only premium pairs because he's folding a lot obv and we would lose value... if we keep 4betting him kinda light he will adjust and then I will mix up my 4bet range with premium hands...Regarding the 4bet size, since villain is either going to 5bet or fold, I think it doesn't matter much because if he fold we win the pot, but if he shoves and we fold we would lose more chips by 4betting bigger Your size works better if his 3betting range has more trash in it and bluffy hands rather than just a wide Ax/Kx value rangeeven if it contains Ax or Kx is fine I think... He can't flat A rag or a random king, and I don't think he would shove something A7... so I don't understand why my size should be bigger if his range contaise more Ax/Kx type hands I'd prefer a small 4bet given the range you describedperfect :)
It sounds like the top winner in the network plays a style that works very well against fish - value, value, value. It's true that raising and c-betting is powerful, but the biggest leak that fish have is putting in way too many chips when they shouldn't and getting owned by value bets. That's not to say you shouldn't open 98 - you should - but there are lots of big nits with great results on all networks and it's because how successful that strategy is against fish.I think against fish minraising 100% readless is suboptimal because of this postflop tendency.I also have come to prefer minraising 75bb deep especially against fish. Their errors are magnified deeper.I'm not sure about HEM filters to check your double barrel frequency, I've only just started experimenting with HEM.
mmm, maybe I got it wrong, minraising atc readleass is suboptimal, but you prefer minraising 75bb deep vs fishes because their errors are magnified... why do you prefere minraise if it is suboptimal?
I prefer minraising and not 3xing when we do open.
I prefer minraising and not 3xing when we do open.K got it I think against fish minraising 100% readless is suboptimal because of this postflop tendency.Btw,does minraising 100% is suboptimal because against m opponents 3x is better (in order to have a bigger pot on the flop) or because raising 100% expose us to countless dangers since we should double barrel many times when the opponent have a hand? Against my opponents do you suggest 3xing pre or just open something like 70% of the SBs?
I suggest minraising pre and opening like 70% of buttons, adjusting depending on what you learn of course. I think most villains are too loose/stationy postflop for playing 100% of hands to be best.
I suggest minraising pre and opening like 70% of buttons, adjusting depending on what you learn of course. I think most villains are too loose/stationy postflop for playing 100% of hands to be best.Yep def, I overvalued my ability to outplay opponents... k ty
Since I run much below the expectation... I wanted to see if my thoughts were right...I filtered by 2 to 2 players and by all in preflop equal true... and as you can see I win way less than expected... can you check your database applying the same filters? Maybe is something wrong with HM but I don't think so... obv you are a HM developer I know, I'm asking you this because, since you play husng, you can check if there is something strange...This should be an interesing discussion because, running bad in all in preflop could be one of the key points in a bad run... and analiyzing it could help ... because we can identify one factor of a bad run
I mean, we already can tell from your graph that you're running extremely poor in all-in situations. That's all that EV graph tells you above. So I'm not surprised that it also says you're running bad in pre-flop all-in situations, it would be hard not to given your overall graph.
HH 1 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBPRO 11500 SBHero1500 Effective Stacks: 75bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, PRO 1 raises to 84, Hero raises to 200, PRO 1 folds Final Pot: 284 Hero wins 284 ( won +84 ) PRO 1 lost -84 Ok first hand, I don't wanna tell the pro name, btw... let's name him PRO 1...I'm opening close to 100% and he's 3betting above 30%, his 3bet range contains a K2s+, A2s+, any PP, two broadways and when I flat he cbets everytime. He has 2 3bet size 2x, and 2,5x, the second one is more strong than 2x. Since he's 3betting that range I should flat hands that dominate his 3bet range, 4betting better hands allows him to fold his weak holdings and basically I'm losing value. So I'm 4bet/fold thrash and continue to do so unless he adjust, after that I will include also premiums but I think the best play in position with big PP is to flat because he will never have a hand very often and he doesn't 5bet bluff enough. When I flat and we both hit top pair, he's confidently stacking off... so flatting these holdings is better than 4betting...What I wrote does make sense ?
It does make sense except that I'd still 4bet premium pairs and I'd probably 4bet a little bit bigger with these trashy hands especially once you know he's realizing you have to be doing it with more than just monsters. Your size works better if his 3betting range has more trash in it and bluffy hands rather than just a wide Ax/Kx value range. Same goes for flatting premium pairs, that works better if he has more air in his range, I'd prefer a small 4bet given the range you described.
"even if it contains Ax or Kx is fine I think... He can't flat A rag or a random king, and I don't think he would shove something A7... so I don't understand why my size should be bigger if his range contaise more Ax/Kx type hands"I don't have the same faith you do he's folding Ax/Kx to this size as much as you think. People will peel with Ax/decent kings for sure here with the pot affording them 29%, even OOP. I think a little bigger - 220-235, will do better."since villain is either going to 5bet or fold"This just isn't true against the vast majority of villains I've played especially when you make it a smaller size. Do you have reads that it's true for this particular opponent?
"since villain is either going to 5bet or fold" This just isn't true against the vast majority of villains I've played especially when you make it a smaller size. Do you have reads that it's true for this particular opponent?y, of course... he never flats...
Cool, your 4bet size is fine then. Definitely put that in the initial description, it's crucial to the dynamic.
Cool, your 4bet size is fine then. Definitely put that in the initial description, it's crucial to the dynamic.yy, glad to hear that I'm working well against himI don't have the same faith you do he's folding Ax/Kx to this size as much as you think. People will peel with Ax/decent kings for sure here with the pot affording them 29%, even OOP. I think a little bigger - 220-235, will do better.I'm thinking about the size... what about a strange size like 199? On ps.it a raise like that due to the number 9, seems bigger... chips are arranged in a way that seems bigger for the eyes...And what about mixing the 199 size and 200 size completely random? Maybe villain is going to overthink about it and make strange and wrong adjustments...
I think 199 is going to get action more often than 200. You're balancing two psychological effects - the big chip effect, and the "it's one hundred and something" effect. I think the second is more powerful.
I think 199 is going to get action more often than 200. You're balancing two psychological effects - the big chip effect, and the "it's one hundred and something" effect. I think the second is more powerful.k, got it, I'm overthink here... no need right now to do "strange" things since I don't have to grind small edges... there is much to exploit, specially at high blinds when this pro flats a minraise K2s 10 bb deep :P
HH 2 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1290 BBdavidjsd1710 Effective Stacks: 65bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, davidjsd calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) davidjsd checks, Hero bets 40, davidjsd calls 40 Turn (160, 2 players) davidjsd checks, Hero checks River (160, 2 players) davidjsd checks, Hero bets 60, davidjsd raises to 200, Hero calls 140 Final Pot: 560 Hand against a random fish, no interesting reads about him... I bet a little less than half pot in order to seek a call from an A high type hands or some mid pocket pair. Villain playing 70% of the hands OOP, I really can't put him or an 8 (probably he would raise on the flop) and I can't see what 3 he could have in his range unless he's calling with suited 3 (and he propably call with than). I can't put him on an K since I don't think he's capable of value raise thin here... We're valuebet thinly (well not that thinly) and get raised... do you think my call is good? something thought about the hand?
Readless I'm betting turn to get value from 8x/Ax/pps/flush draws. As played on river I'm fine with calling once you bet this small, I expect people to bet river with their 8x the vast majority of the time and he can have overcard floats that turned themselves into bluffs with your small sizing.
Readless I'm betting turn to get value from 8x/Ax/pps/flush draws. As played on river I'm fine with calling once you bet this small, I expect people to bet river with their 8x the vast majority of the time and he can have overcard floats that turned themselves into bluffs with your small sizing.you are right, betting the turn readless is best, and when I checked I wonder why I dind't bet it
HH 3 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBdavidjsd1540 BBHero1460 Effective Stacks: 49bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB davidjsd raises to 60, Hero raises to 150, davidjsd calls 90 Flop (300, 2 players) Hero bets 150, davidjsd raises to 300, Hero raises to 450, davidjsd calls 150 Turn (1200, 2 players) Hero goes all-in 860 Villain is the same of the previous hand, again useful read so far...I min3bet the flop because I wanna leave some room for his reshove but he calls, lol... on the turn I shove which, imho is the worst play possible. If my idea is to get it in, I should check or bet small and allow him to bluff. Shoving the turn doesn't accomplish anything... maybe he could call me with a J, but I think he would shove that on the flop... what do you think as played on the turn?
Yeah I agree with you that the turn play is definitely bad.I'm flatting this flop raise. He's going to have a ton of air and when we flat we can rep two overcards or ace high or a pocket pair and he's going to want to barrel that range off a lot. Min3betting will generally fold out his air which is a really bad result. As played I check turn and hope he spitecalled flop with a bluff and follows through with it. If checked through we can bet river and get more value from Jx than shove turn line for sure.
Min3betting will generally fold out his air which is a really bad resultso, because we have value, we should min3bet when we want to fold his bluff and we don't have value right?
Right, min3bet is a good play either when we think he's going to 4bet bluff and we have value, or when we think he won't and we don't have value.
HH 5 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1695 SBPRO 21305 Effective Stacks: 44bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB PRO 2 raises to 60, Hero calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Hero checks, PRO 2 bets 60, Hero raises to 150, PRO 2 calls 90 Turn (420, 2 players) Hero bets 210, PRO 2 goes all-in 1095, Hero calls 885 Ok, time for another hand against another pro, this time PRO 2.He's playing pretty straight forward, but he becames creative in 3bet pots both when I 3betting and when he's 3betting. He's calling 3bets close to ATC, even with low eff stacks. Now he's massive multitabling and his game became worse... These things, along with the hand above got me think about his game that maybe is not that great like everybody's sayingAh, no particular reads... I'll post the result after some replies
I bet/call turn bigger, can't love that card but we still easily have enough equity to bet/call. 250-280 looks good to me.
I bet/call turn bigger, can't love that card but we still easily have enough equity to bet/call. 250-280 looks good to me.why you don't like that turn?
I mean with top pair and the nut flush draw there aren't really that many "bad" cards, but J9/89/QT/T7 can be in his range.Bet/call a little bigger because the flush draw didn't hit which is a big part of your c/r bluff range and a lot of his pairs just picked up extra equity that will make them continue more even to bigger sizings.
I mean with top pair and the nut flush draw there aren't really that many "bad" cards, but J9/89/QT/T7 can be in his range. Bet/call a little bigger because the flush draw didn't hit which is a big part of your c/r bluff range and a lot of his pairs just picked up extra equity that will make them continue more even to bigger sizings.btw, he got T7, regarding the size... obv you are right, but what about if he think I'm bluffing? If I c/r bluff the flop I could bet small the turn trying to fold out any pair, if I bet bigger he can't shove marginal pairs hoping that I fold bluffs here... and btw, it would be 250/call right? We aren't folding right?
250/call yeah. I don't think that sizing looks too much stronger. I'd actually interpret 210 as stronger and not looking like it's trying to fold too much out. You're right though that we shouldn't bet so big that it suggests less fold equity.
You're right though that we shouldn't bet so big that it suggests less fold equity.We are going in anyway so we are trying to maximize our hand, so obv we want to charge any random pair or something that got equity against us, but he can't shove profitably because we would not fold. So yeah we lose value because he's getting a better price to outdraw us, but I think sometimes he can shove and compensate for that... If Villain was a random player, I would bet bigger, because fishes (that I'm playing against) tend to calling instead of shoving here even if they got fold equity...
HH 6 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero2095 SBludyon905 Effective Stacks: 30bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB ludyon calls 15, Hero checks Flop (60, 2 players) Hero checks, ludyon bets 120 Villain is an uknown fish, many times I'm facing this spot and I don't know exactly what to do, obv it depends on villain... Many times I shove and villain calls with better hands, but I don't know if I'm result oriented, I should check HM.Let's condiser this spot, what do you do and what factor do you consider if villain bets pot, double the pot (like the hand above), or shoves...
30bb deep I'm fine with jamming over the overbet. Would call an openjam as well. If he pots and pot is not his normal c-bet sizing I would just flat. Not a super fun spot though obv and I would expect to have pretty marginal equity.
30bb deep I'm fine with jamming over the overbet. Would call an openjam as well. If he pots and pot is not his normal c-bet sizing I would just flat. Not a super fun spot though obv and I would expect to have pretty marginal equity.We have a spade which helps... and if out hand doesn't contain a spade, would you called as well?
Big time - I'm folding to both the overbet and the jam if we had 98 without a spade. The combos that crush us when we don't have a spade are a bunch of times greater than the combos that crush us when we do. When we have both, either we have the best pair or the best draw the majority of the time, occasionally both, and occasionally neither. The situation is much more dire if we only have the pair of nines to work with.
hh7 Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1510 BBrebe581490 Effective Stacks: 75bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, rebe58 calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) rebe58 bets 120 Pretty same spot as before, different villain, but this time we're full stack... many time I wanna convince myself that villain is overplaying top pair, but even if I am right I'm really confused about the line I should take This hands make me think about what you said in your article 10. "If I have Q6 on a 642 board, I hate all turn cards that aren't queens or sixes." Thinking like this often leads people to over-protect their hand and be too scared of what cards can come. For example, if you had the Q6 in position on this hand and your opponent check/called a bet, a Jack on the turn would improve your equity in the hand against his range. Just because a jack increases the amount of hands that beat you doesn't mean that the card increases that percentage in your opponent's range of hands. Don't be scared, make a real value bet, and don't try too much to push people out on these type of flops. The reason for doing so is emotional, not mathematical.
I'd raise/call here but not super in love with it. I'd probably make the raise nice and fat and set up stacks well for a turn jam. It's often good to respond to people who overbets with overbets, for reasons that aren't entirely simple. People who like to overbet jam, for example, will call you lighter when you overbet jam over their 3x preflop like 30bb deep. I'd just pot it to 440 readless against a random who overbets like this early on. They definitely can be overplaying 6x which will be where the biggest portion of the value comes from. The diamond helps, too, but probably isn't essential.
I’m rereading your article “22 flawed reasonings in husng poker” 3. "I'll fold and wait for a better spot." Similarly, especially in the era of the rematch button, you're looking for a +EV spot. Hourly rate is a much better stat to be proud of than your ROI. The question you should be asking yourself is whether the play is +EV. When you're folding, "waiting for a better spot" isn't generally going to be why except in more extreme scenarios, like passing up on 52% equity against an opponent open-shoving 75bb deep. In general though, making the play that gives you the best equity in the hand is going to be what wins you the most money overall Obv 2% is an edge, but what about the rake, we should’t count that because we should focus on cEV plays so, if we got a small edge we should take advantage of it. But the question is… in the long run, we will do the correct EV play, since we’re calling our stack with 52% equity, but we’ll win 52% of Hus … which I don’t know… close to breakeven? So where’s the point of that? We are making a +EV decision that is making us no money… I think there is a thread on 2p2, regarding my question but I can’t find it
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/58/heads-up-nl/husng-theory-rake-tourn... Rake is a sunk cost is the "too long, didn't read" version of it :)
Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBHero1339 SBPRO11661 Effective Stacks: 45bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is BB PRO1 raises to 60, Hero raises to 150, PRO1 calls 90 Flop (300, 2 players) Hero bets 150, PRO1 calls 150 Turn (600, 2 players) Hero checks, PRO1 bets 312, Hero goes all-in 1039, PRO1 calls 727 River (2678, 2 players, 1 all-in) Final Pot: 2678 Hero shows two pair, Tens and Eights PRO 1shows three of a kind, Eights Ok... I don't know why I shove since I know it 100% he's got the 8 and obv he's not folding... Stacks are pretty akward and I don't know what to do... if I know 100% sure that he's got the 8 is it fold?
"if I know 100% sure that he's got the 8 is it fold?"Of course it is! Three of a kind is better than two pair!I would bet/call this turn. If we check, it's because we think we're inducing bluffs against this opponent, and are happy to check/raise get it in. Against most, betting gets value from draws and 9x.
"if I know 100% sure that he's got the 8 is it fold?" Of course it is! Three of a kind is better than two pair! I would bet/call this turn. If we check, it's because we think we're inducing bluffs against this opponent, and are happy to check/raise get it in. Against most, betting gets value from draws and 9x. When I'm saying 100% I mean most likely he got an 8 here, since is checking most of his weak/mid holdings... obv i now trips > 2p :P
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