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sament's picture
sament's thread (May 2011)

Hi guys,I play mostly on european sites, when I played regular speed hu I had 60% winrate over almost 2k hu at 10-100€ and had a good bankroll. Then I cashoutted everything because I had some problems in real life but a couple of months ago I came back to play and decided to play turbo because there is much more action, but things are not going well. I've played mid stakes turbo but I run something like 120 buyin under EV over 2k hu turbo and I have a 3% ROI I know I have leaks and can't spot them...I tilt very much in hu turbo but not in hu normal. You could say: play normal! No way...I just want to get better at turbo :) Maybe I'll learn to run good :)GL to everyone! 

mersenneary's picture
Welcome! :)

Welcome! :)

sament's picture
I've found myself losing a

I've found myself losing a lot when I don't know if to 2barrell...so I check back and then I have to face a bet on the river very often and I find very hard folding.  In this hand oppo is pretty tag, his VPIP from BB is 44% and 3B is 12%. In a previous hand he check called my cbet with AJ on J73r and chk turn J and then bet 160 on 280 on river 3 ( I had K2 and gave up on turn). Then he c/r top pair in this hand where I think I couldn't lose less than this. No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBOppo1794  SBHero1206  Effective Stacks: 40bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 60, Oppo calls 30    Flop (120, 2 players) Oppo checks, Hero bets 80, Oppo raises to 160, Hero calls 80    Turn (440, 2 players) Oppo bets 150, Hero calls 150    River (740, 2 players) Oppo bets 120, Hero calls 120    Final Pot: 980 Oppo shows a flush, Queen high Hero shows Oppo wins 980 ( won +490 ) Hero lost -490  And then this is the kind of hand I'm in trouble. Should I 2barrell that turn against him? And what size? I usually 2barrell always the same size (half pot) but I think this may be another leak... I think I would have bet if turn was an A or some low card but I'm unsure of K/Q/J/8/7 and stuff like that. Does my kicker matter in 2barreling or not?     BBOppo1551  SBHero1449  Effective Stacks: 48bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 60, Oppo calls 30 Flop (120, 2 players) Oppo checks, Hero bets 80, Oppo calls 80 Turn (280, 2 players) Oppo checks, Hero checks River (280, 2 players) Oppo bets 140, Hero ?    

 

mersenneary's picture
J9 hand is 100% standard. Any

J9 hand is 100% standard. Any other play on any street would be awful.With the T4, given that your opponent doesn't seem bluffy/spewy, I'd bet the turn small and check back most rivers. There's 9x/5x/draws to get value out of and that's going to be bigger than the better Tx/Kx/better hands in his range. 120 looks good.On the river I think you can actually consider folding against this opponent, he has some missed straight draws but I don't expect 9x to be betting this way I'd fold if you haven't seen any bluff instinct yet.

sament's picture
I got some problems with

I got some problems with these kind of hands against loose passive opponents when I'm between 12-25bb (the shorter I am the more problems I have). I'm also a little tilting cause I'm not running very well  :( and I think I'm missing many marginal spot like this.Oppo is a fish, loose passive postflop but preflop his VPIP from BB is 68% and his 3bet is 20%. He's getting a little bit tighter OOP when the stack are shallow. He plays more hands from BB than SB (lol) where he limps a lot (PFR from SB is 23%). When we were deeper he c/r me once on AQ9ss, but he c/c me with middle pair, draws and even with T3cc on J82cxx (I guess backdoor flush/straight was kind of nuts for him).  I think this was a mistake... but what range are we shoving against this kind of oppo here?   Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBtaxibong685  BBHero2315  Effective Stacks: 14bb Blinds 25/50 Pre-Flop (75, 2 players) Hero is BB taxibong raises to 350, Hero goes all-in 2315, taxibong goes all-in 335 The other hand is this: I don't know if to cbet in this kind of spots against this kind of players at this stack size when I miss (especially if I have A high). I guess this flop hit his calling range and there are many turn that hit him when he calls with draws so I often check back to the river. Am I losing value and I should bet flop or turn?  Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBtaxibong895  SBHero2105  Effective Stacks: 18bb Blinds 25/50 Pre-Flop (75, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 100, taxibong calls 50 Flop (200, 2 players) taxibong checks, Hero checksTurn (200, 2 players) taxibong checks, Hero checksRiver (200, 2 players) taxibong checks, Hero checks

 

mersenneary's picture
The A4 hand is a groan

The A4 hand is a groan against a 23% opener 14bb deep. I think I would actually make a fold too but you can't make that big of a habit of it, especially with a suited ace. I'm still jamming A8o+ A6s+ KJ+ 33+.I'm fine with not c-betting the A5o, but I would minbet on the turn (or like t65) against a loose passive. This gets value from his draws and folds out his two live cards which is better than letting them realize their equity for free, and that makes up for when you valuetown yourself.

sament's picture
I got some problems when I

I got some problems when I have to valuebet against fish, I think I can't always get the value I want. I rembember you said in a video that our valuebet size should be based on villain's range "the more missed draws he has, the less we should bet. the more made hands he has, the bigger we should bet". Can't forget that, really helped me a lot, mers :)Now villain is a huge fish. VPIP from BB is 80% and he 3bets 25%. He always 3bets jam, even 75bb deep, and he also openjams deep from SB. Usually fishes like him on pokerstars.it make these jams with pp/AX. He donk bets 75% and when he doesn't donk it's always to c/f. 1st hand: I think he's got more drawing hands, that's why I bet small. 2nd hand: watching it again I'm wondering if maybe a bigger bet on that turn was better. What do you think? What size if turn was a blank like 2h? Comments on river size?No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1660  BBkatrea1340  Effective Stacks: 67bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, katrea calls 20 Flop (80, 2 players) katrea bets 20, Hero calls 20 Turn (120, 2 players) katrea bets 20, Hero raises to 100, katrea calls 80 River (320, 2 players) katrea checks, Hero bets 100, katrea folds   No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBHero1710  BBkatrea1290  Effective Stacks: 65bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 40, katrea calls 20  Flop (80, 2 players) katrea bets 20, Hero raises to 80, katrea calls 60  Turn (240, 2 players) katrea checks, Hero bets 120, katrea calls 120  River (480, 2 players) katrea checks, Hero bets 300, katrea folds  

 

mersenneary's picture
""the more missed draws he

""the more missed draws he has, the less we should bet. the more made hands he has, the bigger we should bet". Can't forget that, really helped me a lot, mers :)"So this is only part of the story. Our value bet sizing really depends on what made hands we're trying to get value out of. Additionally, sometimes missed draws mean that we have missed draws in our range as well, and thus can afford to bet bigger for value because we rep bluffs too.Our opponent's missed draws matter most in deciding whether to check/call or bet/fold, those types of situations. The more missed draws, the more likely we should be to check/call, the more of his weaker range that has showdown value, the more likely we should be to bet/fold.River sizing on the Q3 looks much too small. Given the missed draws he may call with 4x a good bit on the river, and your sizing seems too targeted towards Ax/inducing. I would bet 180 on the river.Your sizing looks a lot better on the second hand. I'd probably bet a little less on the river, like 275, but not a big difference.

sament's picture
Playing a tight opponent who

Playing a tight opponent who plays fit or fold on flop. His VPIP is 40% from SB and 40% from BB, with 8% 3Bet. Even if he 3bets he keeps playing fit or fold. His 3b frequency is a little higher under 15bb.1) He openshoves at 17bb. It's the first time. Which range would you call? 2) Because he's playing less than 50% of hands and playing fit or fold, is it correct to tighten up our openshoving range and widen our miniraise range ( I guess 100% can be correct) and cbet almost every board even at 10bb? And mr/calling a tight range like pp/A7+? 

 

mersenneary's picture
1) A7o+, A5s+, 33+, KQ, KJs,

1) A7o+, A5s+, 33+, KQ, KJs, something like that.2) Yes, I agree. Except given that 3betting frequency I would jam Ax. Him calling when you have Ax 10bb deep is not a good result, his expectation will be much better than -1bb from folding. Strong kings and queens are the best minraise/calling hands (in addition to the pairs). I would also limp your premium pairs against someone who is pretty tight and let them catch a pair.

sament's picture
Never thought of limping

Never thought of limping premium against a tight...I try to limp against very aggressive to let them shove over my limp. Good to know!

 

sament's picture
So Mers, I have other stupid

So Mers, I have other stupid questions! :)Let's say we're facing a fish who is pretty a station but if we show weakness (like checking back when we're IP) he always leads turn. So when I'm IP I don't have many problems, I 2x preflop and pot control easily against him, like checking back strong hands on the flop to raise/call his bet on the turn or on the river. But what about 3betting him? He opens wide from SB and never folds to a 3bet but he has big pp and big AX in a 4bettin jam range, so we should 3bet him for value I guess...but what could be a value range considering the reads I told you before? I 3bet something like 88+/AT+/KJ+ but I'm in trouble when I don't like the flop...I think I play fit or fold or I'm too spewy! If we're 75bb, he 3x and we make a pot size 3bet: on the flop we'll have like 18bb with a 66bb stack (@50bb it's 12bb pot for a 44 stack if he 2x and 18bb and 41bb if he 3x). Having a small SPR and being OOP what do we do when we miss the flop? For example:AJ on 97388 on Q92KQ on 76399 on JT4and stuff like that... So if we cbet half pot, we get called by pairs/draws/overs vs him  and we have a big pot on the turn and a little equity. If we check we know he's betting wide and so I find often myself checking back and herocalling 3 streets with A high and getting owned by his bottom pair. I've tried to:1) check push hands that have equity but are not made, like KQ on T93. 2) 3bet jam the hands I find hard to play, like TT-/AT-AJ/KJ+3) check/fold AJ on 973 or KQ on 872hh if I have no hearts.4) making a lower 3bet with hands like KQ/AJ and bigger with pp. But I'm still very doubtful. I can't really find an optimal way to handle spots like these...I can also post some hands but I'd like to know if you have a better general strategy!

 

mersenneary's picture
I'd make your 3bet range

I'd make your 3bet range purely value of course. Remember that you're getting a TON of value when you do hit if what you say is true. That's big. So feel very confident about that.AJ on 973 - c-bet 88 on Q92 - check KQ on 763 - c-bet 99 on JT4 - check  Are my suggestions. It depends a good bit on what betsizing he likes to use when you check and how much he double barrels. If he always bets big, for one, start checking your made hands as well. If it's just a stab, check/call works really well with a lot of your marginal made hands.I'd also make it more pre with your hands that flop a little worse - you can do bigger than potsized with AJ, 88, etc. It also really matters if he's loose in terms of raising your c-bets, that significantly reduces the value of cbetting AJ/KQ on those two flops. One thing to do if he's not that loose in terms of raising and is just loose passive is make sure to keep your c-bet size fairly small.

sament's picture
Oppo is a tight aggressive

Oppo is a tight aggressive player. VPIP from BB is 38 and 3B is 16. I'm opening 100% from BU with a 2.5x size cause he calls more OOP if I 2x. He likes to c/r with TP+, but he donks bet with air/draw/low pair so I can't see a fold here but I can't see the best play.So what's the best play here? Raise and get it in? Or calling and see if turn is a blank? What if we raise to 540-600 and get called?Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter BBn1folletto1390  SBHero1610  Effective Stacks: 46bb Blinds 15/30 Pre-Flop (45, 2 players) Hero is SB Hero raises to 75, n1folletto calls 45 Flop (150, 2 players) n1folletto bets 180, Hero ??? 

 

mersenneary's picture
What exactly have you seen so

What exactly have you seen so far in terms of donking sizing, hand, on what board texture? My instinct is to fold here to this overbet -you're crushed far more often than you're well ahead. If I did continue, I basically would never raise/call, and would flat. But this is a fold until you convince me otherwise with some hands of him doing something like this.

sament's picture
In the first hand he mini

In the first hand he mini donked for 3 streets with Q2 on KJ296 75bb deep (I had TT and called all of his bets). He donked half pot and folded to a raise (T52ss where I had JJ) and he also donked full pot on 872r, he called my raise and fold on turn Ax. In a previous match he check raised 80-250 on JT4 with J6 and on turn 9 he stacked it off deep ( I had KQ). That's why I think he's got more draws/air type of hands.

 

mersenneary's picture
I think it's different on the

I think it's different on the monotone board and the overbet. fold >> call >>>>>> raise, would be my rankings of it. Too much stuff crushes us and we barely are that ahead of anything, especially with this sizing.

sament's picture
1st hand of the match, I

1st hand of the match, I played him weeks ago and he won JJ vs AK preflop but from HEM stats he tends to see many flops. VPIP from SB is 70% with limp 35%. My notes on him are: limp 76/96/K6l/c T9/A5 deepraise pre K7/Q6/55/ Don't know if I have to bet or check/call that turn. I think he would have shoved any river...so maybe I should have called. What if river wasn't a diamond?No Limit Holdem Tournament • 2 Players Hand converted by the official HUSNG.com hand converter SBknokknokers1500  BBHero1500  Effective Stacks: 75bb Blinds 10/20 Pre-Flop (30, 2 players) Hero is BB knokknokers raises to 60, Hero raises to 180, knokknokers calls 120   Flop (360, 2 players) Hero bets 180, knokknokers calls 180   Turn (720, 2 players) Hero checks, knokknokers bets 200, Hero calls 200   River (1120, 2 players) Hero checks, knokknokers goes all-in 940, Hero folds   

 

mersenneary's picture
I would take the same line as

I would take the same line as you fairly readless. His line is...odd. It makes the most sense for a flush, although many of those draws will raise flop on this board (and they should). He can have like 55 (which should shove pre) or A2 (generally should be suited) as well, too. This happens so rarely that I just shrug and fold and not put him on the float/small turn bet/jam river line, which can be a really effective bluff line, but most people don't use that much.