PokerStars Makes Sweeping Changes to Heads Up SNG Lobbies
May 07, 2011 - PokerStars made some large changes to their sit and go offerings yesterday, including some major changes to heads up sit and go games. Among the new changes, the fees (rake) of all turbo levels have been decreased, some higher stakes buyins have decreased rake, an increased top buyin level of $10,000 has been added, blind levels as well as blind length has changed for regular and turbo speed games (charts of these changes are below) and "hyper" (super) turbo heads up sit and gos are being put in as a test for the time being.
Starting with rake changes, turbo buyin levels are now standardized (example, $10 buyin rather than $11, $20 buyin rather than $21). Turbo rake is decreased somewhat, with $5 + .21, $10 + 43, $20 + .85, $30 + 1.28, $50 + 2.02 and $100 + 4.50.
The higher levels have experienced even larger reductions in rake. Turbo level rake in the higher buyin games are currently $200 + 6.38, $300 + 8.93, $500 + 12.75, $1,000 + 21.25, $2,000 + 38.25 and $5,000 + 63.75.
There is a new $10,000 + 127.50 turbo speed option in the heads up sng lobbies on PokerStars as well.
The hyper (super) turbo structure in testing is at the $5 level, with .11 cents in rake (2.2%). These start at 500 chips and 10-20 blinds, with blind increases of 2 minutes. It's probably worth mentioning, that if higher level players want to see this new structure offered at all buyin levels, to set aside a bit of time each day and play a few of the test $5.11 buyin games, to help show your interest to PokerStars.
Below are pictures detailing the blind level and length changes that PokerStars has made for both regular and turbo speed heads up sngs. The third picture shows the new hyper turbo speed test tables, currently found at the $5 + .11 level.
Regular Speed
Turbo Speed
Hyper Turbo Speed
Take a look at these new changes for yourself in the PokerStars lobby and let us know what you think.
Here's an additional bit of information:- Lobby looks overwhelming and bland right now. This will change sometime next week probably, when PokerStars releases a new updated client (stuff like differentiating types of games is more difficult now without severe filtering).- There were unlimited lobbies able to be sat right after these changes. That apparently has gone away now and PokerStars has said it was unintentional/not planned. Expect the amount of open registering tables to stay the same for the near future.- Hyper turbo action for the $5 test buyin looks fairly good right now and did earlier when I looked at it. It appears extremely likely that Stars will make this structure a regular part of their offerings.
I don't like the 6 minute blind levels in regular speeds since it means there will be less play deeper. Deep play offers a larger skill edge and as the games get tougher, higher complexity should be welcomed not reduced. Moreover, I'm not sure there's enough high stakes action to support all 3 formats without long wait times.These changes help PokerStars but I don't think it helps the games for those who preferred PokerStars over FTP. In fact, this looks too much like FTP and PokerStars lost one of its big advantages. They should at least add deep stacked HUSNGs starting at 150 or 200BB (instead of the silly wait fests known as "no blind increase").BTW: Turbo rake isn't really decreased since the buy-in is smaller too.
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Katipo - It depends how you look at it.The old structure of 10 minute blind levels you would be at the 50/100 level at 30 minutes into the game but with the added blind levels now you are at 40/80 blinds after 30 minutes of play.This requires some adjustments along the way but overall you don't get to that 15bb effective stack stage (assume both stacks were even) until 6 minutes later then the old standard blind structure and then at 42 minutes you are at 60/120 where before at 40 minutes you were at 75/150 which not many go to this stage but if it happens you are shallower in the older structure in longer games then you are with this new struture.
I suppose but they're usually at like 500 chips when it's 50/100. Unless I'm playing tough regs, they're pretty much on life support at 50/100. Most of my games never even get to 50/100. And the skill difference doesn't really scale that much. Whether it's 9bb or 3BB, I can't say there's a huge skill difference if they're even remotely competent.
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"- Hyper turbo action for the $5 test buyin looks fairly good right now and did earlier when I looked at it. It appears extremely likely that Stars will make this structure a regular part of their offerings."@Rypac: Do you have any idea, when they will become a regular part with higher buy ins available?
No real idea.It looks like they've changed it to $6.85 + .15.I don't know how high or how long they will test these for at the moment.
I agree with them lobbies being extremely ugly right now but I still wish I could play on there again :(
so they pretty much copied full tilt structures its excellent news they reduced the rake.pity their software is no where near as smooth as FT cant see the supers being as enjoyable.
To be honest, the way games play today, it's hard to argue that deeper is always better. A lot of that reason, I believe, is that players are often playing deeper in other formats directly applicable to husngs (hu cash for example), so they have more experience at mid to deeper stack sizes.It doesn't mean they are great in that area, but I think it helps work against the natural assumption that deeper = more edge (realistically speaking).I love how Stars adds hyper test tables now, well over a year after FTP adds their supers. Seriously, we've been asking for this for a year now, and we finally get one $5 table tested when we can't even play (US players)? This is the same pace of the rematch button implementation (where dozens of us, including some huge rakers, had to chain email them for a few months before that was implemented).Move faster for husngs!Edit: Just so there is no confusion, I'm really talking about your hourly rather than edge in a hand. You'll likely have a much larger edge in a NBI format than even a regular speed structure that rarely gets 10bb or less just from blinds. However, hourly is really where it's at, a pro should be able to handle a smaller ROI that results in a ton more volum eand ultimately a much larger hourly (or make the necessarily changes to handle it, you're a pro, it's your job!).
I agree that deeper isn't always better, especially 100BB+ where the larger skill edge is unlikely to compensate for the reduced hourly. However, this mostly applies to when the game is still 25BB+. Even if hourly is higher now, the shallower structures will suffer the most as the games evolve. Play at the 20BB level is just inherently less complex and skillful. A lot of it can be solved through mathematics but the same cannot be said for 50BB.Deeper play allows more room for creativity (even preflop, like 4-betting small) and offers more ways to exploit players. Practically, this means that playing deeper structures is an insurance against tougher games due to the higher skill edge. For instance the top reg speed player may be profitable playing the 100th best reg speed player. However, the top super turbo is probably losing to rake vs the 100th best super turbo player. I'm looking at the big picture for the games and their health in years to come. I don't see this as a positive development at all.On the other hand, I'd have loved this change if the reg speeds started at 100BB. Another idea is to have the blind level time decrease as the game progresses (up to a point). For instance, 10/20 10 minutes, 15/30 9 minutes, 20/40 8 minutes, 25/50 7 minutes, 30/60 6 minutes, 40/80 5 minutes, 50/100 4 minutes, 60/120 3 minutes, 75/150 2 minutes, 100/200 2 minutes etc. I really like this idea and my intuitive guess is that it would be far more interesting while also increasing hourly quite significantly both now and in the future. Moreover, the blind levels towards the very end are shorter and this may randomize results a bit if it ever gets to that point (rare), which fish surely like. If the game is too long, perhaps 10/20 10 minutes, 15/30 8 minutes, 20/40 6 minutes, 25/50 6 minutes, 30/60 6 minutes, 40/80 6 minutes etc.
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I just looked at Merge's normal HUSNG structure and it's great. It seems much better as well as more fun than Stars' and I don't think the games would be all that long either. Here it is:It starts with 1500 at 10/20 and the blinds change every 10 minutes. It follows 15/30, 20/40, 30/60, 50/100 and 75/150. It's just a shame that their turbos don't share the same structure while having 5 minute blind levels. Hopefully I'll be able to start playing on BCP in mid-September. Maybe they'll add Ryan's ST structure too and eliminate that horrid NL Omaha game (congrats to the genius who came up with that one).
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Haha, those No Limit Omaha games are terrible!I'm sure some NBI Stars type guys can make a small living if they are good at NL Omaha, just sitting and waiting for the mis-sits.
Between Merge and PS, which ST structure offers a higher ROI potential?
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