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olionion's picture
Flush draw CR on the turn

 Villain was pretty basic, no need to rush.  I think he probably had 2 pair or a strt maybe just a good pair at worse although unlikely.  Should i have flat his CR.  I poker stoved it afterwards and it looks like i was priced in (surprisingly for me ahead)  against a range of KT, T6, 97, 86, AK, T8, he didnt raise pre flop much so any of these were possible.  I couldnt think fast enough on my feet so decided to pick another spot.  Im normally quite passive with my draws too, ironic that one of the few times i play it hard i bugger it up.... what would have been a better line from the off?

Up to that point i had probably appeared pretty aggo as i had been card hot for a few hands and won the game before.

No Limit Holdem Tournament
2 Players
Hand converted by http://husng.com/converter

BTN bobcoyne 1420 
BB Hero 1580 

Effective Stacks: 47bb

Blinds 15/30

Pre-Flop (45, 2 players)
Hero is BB with sA s7

bobcoyne calls 15, Hero checks

Flop (60, 2 players)
h6 sK s8

Hero checks, bobcoyne bets 30, Hero raises to 80, bobcoyne calls 50

Turn (220, 2 players)
hT

Hero bets 110, bobcoyne raises to 550, Hero folds

Final Pot: 880
 
jackoneill's picture
Well, I'm not such a big fan

Well, I'm not such a big fan of that flop c/r in a limped pot, you're just building a huge pot oop with a very marginal holding.

As played, what's the point of betting that turn half pot ?  I don't see him ever fold on that card after he flat'ed your flop c/r.  Since that card improved your hand a little bit, I wouldn't risk getting raised off it, so I'd prefer c/c or even c/rai over the bet here.

If you bet and he raises, then you also need to weight your range a lot more towards stronger hands - I think you can entirely eliminate all the weaker two pairs, and you're also missing all the sets - so when you bet that turn, then I think you have to fold to his raise.

However, I'm not sure whether a c/rai wouldn't be more profitable here - he could be floating your flop c/r with a very wide range in position and then fire a 2nd barrel if you check to him on the turn, so you should have at least some fold equity plus some weaker holdings in his betting-range (that he won't necessarily call a shove with).

Recently, I switched to a much more passive style with draws oop, basically play pot control as much as possible and only bet/raise when I'm reasonably sure I'm ahead.  And especially in limped pots, I try to keep the pot as small as possible - since I didn't invest anything pre-flop, there's just no need for me to fight for that pot oop with a weak holding.


olionion's picture
 Thanks, thats normally how

 Thanks, thats normally how i play them too was just experimenting a little or brain farting, in hindsight most likely the latter.

RyPac13's picture
Be weary of playing draws so

Be weary of playing draws so passively at all times, especially as effective stacks shorten.  Deeper, it can often be correct, especially when facing an opponent that won't give you much credit and will bet small (like a 30 chip flop bet here).

But as you get shorter or opponents bet bigger, you need to play draws much more aggressively.  Take advantage of fold equity to really make the draws a strong and profitable hand for you.  Speculative hands decrease so much in value as stacks decrease, I say this in my videos a lot, but picture putting in 2-3bb with 54s and winning 50-75bb from your opponent when you stack them.  Now compare that to putting in 2bb at 30bb stacks and only getting 30bb when you stack your opponent.  There's a little more to take into account, but that should do a good enough job of illustrating the declining value of speculative hands in the most basic sense.  In reality, if you can mix in aggression and semi bluffing to create fold equity, these draws can play just as well or even better when mid or small effective stack (mid to end game) spots appear.

As always, play your opponent, how they react to whatever you are doing is the most important factor.  In this hand, I suggest just check calling, as your opponent is both betting small and not likely to give you a ton of credit.  If you can triple barrel bluff this when you miss and do so profitably, then I'm playing this one as hard as you, but betting the turn bigger and firing the river often as well.