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Beating HUSNG "Recs" Charity Video Pack
April 14, 2015 - 10:02
Beating Recs by ibavly
If reg battles are the romance of poker, then grinding vs recs is the preparation for the date. It's not the most exciting topic, but it's where most of the money is made and it's what propels your bankroll to be ready to play higher stakes.
Ibavly makes his video coaching debut, bringing his fresh take on how to approach the most lucrative side of husng poker, playing against recreationals. In this live play video you will get to see ibavly play against recreationals at the 60s and 100s while he comments on his plays and strategies. This is a valuable opportunity to peer into a 200s reg’s mind and see how he approaches these games. A bonus section is included where ibavly introduces some theoretical concepts specific to recreational games that are rarely discussed publicly. This short pack won’t make you a crusher on its own, but it will give you tools and ideas to help propel your game to the next level. It’s a no brainer value pack and goes to help a good cause.
All revenue from this pack will go to help Toronto charities. 50% will go to a local community services provider, and 50% will go towards building a new state-of-the-art surgical suite at a major hospital.
ibavly has been playing husngs since mid 2012. He started at the 7s and quickly worked his way up to the 100s. After moving around in the stakes, he eventually settled on a spot in the 200s when the divisions were formed. He has had good results in reg battles at 200s and against 300s regs. He also plays up to 25/50 CAP, spin'n'gos, and 10/20 8-game. He is a well rounded player but his biggest strength relative to the competition is in playing vs recs. Below are graphs of his recent play at 60s and 100s, where most of his play is against recreationals.
7% evROI at 60s:
6% evROI at 100s:
About the pack
Theory (8m 30s):
• Differences between reg and rec play
• Analysis v Intuition
Live Play (31m):
• One table against unknown players with running commentary and thought processes
Price: $20 (Discounts available for stables and other bulk purchases)
Length: 39 minutes
Size: 291 MB
April 15, 2015 - 09:21#1
Will be purchasing this
Will be purchasing this tomorrow, very cheap and to worth while causes. Well done ibavly. :)
April 15, 2015 - 19:49#2
Hi iBavly, Just bought and
Just bought and watched your video. I'm surprised that your vs. rec game is based heavily on intuition rather than analysis. My own rec game is based on knowing population tendencies of almost every spot and scaling them up/down based on board runout. For example if the population was barreling turns 60%, but a good barrel card on the turn comes I would put them on a barrel frequency of 70-75%. I adjust my perception of their frequencies using a bayesian approach. Obviously you have a much higher winrate vs. recs than I do, so could you point out the pitfalls in my approach?
April 16, 2015 - 18:24#4
Thanks for the detailed
Thanks for the detailed reply, I will definitely try to use a incorporate a more intuitive approach in my next few thousand games. I'm guessing you've played chess in the past as the Intuit followed by stress-test is how many competitive chess players decide their moves :P
April 16, 2015 - 04:37#5
April 16, 2015 - 06:04#6
Hello Ibavly, I'm sure your
I'm sure your pack is very useful and valuable:)
Speaking in the subject "Recs", how do you think is the ratio Reg vs Fish nowadays? Is shrinking every year as most people said?
In my opinion, i don't agree fully with that statement because Recs will emerge and appear every day..even with Spin'n'gos now which could affect the traffic at HU Hypers (and the other formats), there is still worthwhile play this format. Like HU Turbos, when hypers appears and menaced seriously dry the turbo format, the players (like Adonis112 for example) who still play those continue to be heavily profitable.
It's normal when you climb the limits, the traffic is more slower and the level of quality of the players grow, in general. So i think is pretty standard that the higher stake you play, the low are the ratio reg/rec play. Like everything in life, the things are still and poker is not exception!
So i'm happy very with your release pack about a subject who people often claims that is disappear day by day.
Anyway, i'd like your opinion about that.
Thanks in advance
April 16, 2015 - 11:22#8
Thank you very much for your
Thank you very much for your reply, Ibavly.
I understand all you said and your point of view. I think we both agree that, with more increase or decrease action at the tables, the money always will be there over the years. It's just a question of adapt to the circumstances of the moment, studying and hard work (work ethic).
Once again, thanks for your feedback.
All the good to you.
April 16, 2015 - 16:18#9
Spin and gos
You mentioned you play some spin and gos, what are the main differences in your button strategy when playing these, are you still limping a healthy percentage or a more standard raise or fold (open jam some pairs)?
Also loved the content, little nuggets of gold in there.
April 16, 2015 - 18:48#11
I was talking about 3 handed,
I was talking about 3 handed, theres very little content out there currently (outside of coffeeyay) so I am sure a video pack will be of value to this community.
April 25, 2015 - 19:32#13
Hey Ibavly, Just wanted to
Just wanted to start by saying I really enjoyed the series. Certainly gave me food for thought & all for a good cause, so thanks for that & well done :)
With the Q8s hand (37:14) a few questions if I may?
1. I was wondering why you min raised this hand, as opposed to limping it pre, which was preached throughout most of the vid?
2. Would we be not better flatting vs his small donk of t20? You mention his range is made up primarily of weak pairs & flush draws which I agree with for the most part (maybe the occasional weak Ax at that stack depth too), so if that's the case I'm struggling to see what raising the flop accomplishes in this spot?
- Any pair worst than an 8 can't continue (which he may decide to over-value on the turn or decide to turn into a bluff if he perceives your flat calling range to be be weak i.e. very little Ax when you call such a small bet)
- Ax is never folding
- We fold out 56,76 which are drawing slim & may decide to barrel the turn.
- We fold out all his his air
- His flush draws (which have decent equity vs us) are almost never folding
- Suppose we may fold out a pocket pair through to maybe JJ? But that's about all I can think of? I just think flatting and letting him make mistakes with such a weak range on the turn may be a better line?
3. Once he calls the flop, you mention on the turn that if he does have something he's unlikely to be folding, so we want to go for a bigger sizing? What worst is calling a bet of 120 at this point? I think his most likely calling range on the flop is Ax, flush draws, and gut shots between the 4&8, 57 got there on the turn, 76, 56 made a pair which will most likely fold to 120, Ax is never folding to 120 and do we think 120 is too big when he's drawing super slim to his spade draw on the river, of course there's always worst 8x, but this is a super slim part of his range considering there's only 2 left in the deck. So my point is, as played should our sizing on the turn be smaller to target the majority of his (weak) range at this point & lose the minimum when he has us crushed with Ax
Your feedback would be much appreciated.
May 3, 2015 - 13:18#15
Hey, interesting concept. I
Hey, interesting concept. I have one question though.
How exactly do we translate a 5%ROI / edge to factor into our calling decision? Do we convert the 5% ROI into chips and then use that as our break-even point for our calling range in a program like CoffeeCalcs?
For example, let's say that we are winning 35 chips / game VS a recreational player and our A8o call (vs what we assume is his 3Bet shove range) is +10 chips comparing to folding and A9o is +43 chips. Do we fold A8o even if it's a plus chipEV call and only call A9o?
Is this what you are saying and if yes what formula do we use to convert a 5% edge into chips? Can we also convert the edge into BB's ?
January 31, 2016 - 02:39#17
How to watch the video
I downloaded it but nothign seems to able to play it
January 31, 2016 - 13:26#18
Did you unzip it first? You
Did you unzip it first? You need to unzip it with something like 7zip or winrar first. Then play it, I'd recommend using the free VLC media player, it's better than quicktime or windows media player.
January 31, 2016 - 16:21#19
February 2, 2016 - 15:25#20
About a hand
I have a question about the hand at 14:44. I am questioning why are you not shoving the river (assuming that you are willing to call at least)? If you just call and lose, then afterwards its essentially an any-two-cards call-jam for you, due to your 2BB left. Plus you get a change to get his extra 105 chips with his Ax, Jx, 5x. Plus, if he has air and he folds to your jam, he never gets the chance to see your hand. If he has the nuts, then great for him, what can you do. I think that (without knowing his hand at showdown) you either lost another 105 of pure value from marginal hands or you lost the bluffcatching opportuntity to not show your hand in a non-showdown scenario, thus keeping him in the dark. Let me say that calling is a perfect option as well.
What is you opinion?
Thanks again for the video.
February 3, 2016 - 19:36#21
I'm going to jump in and
I'm going to jump in and weigh in on the spot :)
First off, calling and losing isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to be. Yes we only have 2bb left, but that still represents 2bb out of a total of 20bb at play--ie 10%. This corresponds to still at least 10% win-rate since even in push-fold you will have edge due to having a stronger push/fold strategy than the average villain who will often make fairly big mistakes--and if win a flip or two stacks will be deeper and we can go back to exerting our post-flop skill edge. 10% winrate may not feel like a lot, but this is worth 0.2 buy-ins. Treating it as nothing is a mistake in analysis, plain and simple.
All that being said let's think about the correct reasoning behind shoving or calling. The math here is pretty clear--with value hands, we do better shoving than calling if and only one criteria is true--we have >50% equity versus villain's calling range. To put more simply, we need to beat more hands in his calling range than we lose to (we can ignore hands we chop with entirely). That's the only thing that matters. How often he folds makes no difference unless we're bluffing. So in this spot raising will be better if we believe villain calls our shove with more Ax Jx or other bluff catchers than he calls with J7, 75 and A7. Because we are so shallow we can remove most Ax from his range, discounting the Ax bet/calls as well as A7. Jx can be discounted a bit because it would need to call the flop--so it either needs to be a strong J like KJ QJ or JT (which we can discount some because villain checked back pre) or else a backdoor flush draw (which can be discounted because weak players tend to under-value backdoor flush draws and over-fold them on flops). 5x Is even more discounted for these reasons (though K5 is a possibility). 5x is also a bit discounted because it's a very thin hand to over-bet lead for value on the river. This means that all of this bet/call range is fairly rare--and the 5x and Jx part might even bet/fold! It's mostly weighted towards Ax, but by my estimates these are only around 3% of villain's pre-flop check back range--and the A on the board lowers this probability further. Certainly it will be a higher weight after villain calls the flop (though some Ax x/r) just because he folds over half his range (so the relative frequency of having an A is higher after he calls) but it's still a very small part of his range. On the other hand, 75 and J7 are both hands that check back almost 100% of the time and so those two combos are a larger fraction of his check back range (by a little amount) than Ax (though they are blocked by the board a little more). Plus we expect them x/call the flop almost always (compared to Ax or random Jhigh or 5x hands that might x/r) and to be part of a river over-bet range (Jx and 5x and even Ax are all significantly less likely to over-bet the river). Overall, while close, it likely means that villain's calling range is slightly weighted towards full houses over the rest of his hands and therefore we will have less than 50% equity when called and therefore should call rather than shove.
In this case with 2bb left after flatting maximizing our win-rate is a much smaller factor. However, even with only 2bb left we still should expect to win >10% of the time (but not by very much), and this effect actually changes the math in our call slightly. We end up needing a little more than 50% equity when called because our stack is worth a little more proportional win-rate (that is the difference between (ourchips/chips in play) versus our estimated win-rate with our skill edge incorporated) when we call and lose and have 2bb than if we shove and lose and end with 0bb (since we have no skill-edge left with 0bb), and also more proportional win-rate when we call and win and end with 665 than if we shoved and won and ended with 770 since we are deeper stacked with 665. It's this effect that creates the desire to "wait and see better spots" and creates a difference between the chipEV of actions and the winrateEV of actions. In this situation, in order for shoving to be better than calling we need >50% equity to make shoving better in chipEV, but actually we need even more equity (likely around 51% in this case, but often higher if stacks were deeper) to make shoving better than calling in terms of maximizing our probability of winning the tournament.
All-in all shoving will likely not be that much worse. But if you're looking to squeeze out as much win-rate as you can calling seems to be a little bit better when we examine the situation in detail and combine the math with an estimate of ranges.
Hope this helps!
February 5, 2016 - 09:35#22
Great answer, thanks!
Great answer, thanks!