I've had some debate with people over whether or not open shoving the 66 for 26BB is better EV than min-r/calling. The one thing that everyone I've talked to agrees with is that against an opponent playing a tight range OOP you are definitely better off min-r/calling (or possibly even min-r/folding against super nits) than you are open shoving.

ye openshoving 66 26bb deep is a mistake imo, std villain is 3bet shoving a4-a6 22-55, but might find a fold if we openshove.

good vid ;)

I've actually found a lot of villains on merge flatting 22-55 against me with those stack sizes. Can't comment on whether they are ever folding them to a shove though.

hey man, i have some questions/discussion

0:00 A6o

i think the first hand is pretty interesting. first off you can most likely 3betshove against the average population at those stakes, flatting might be better though. what's your opinion on this?

otf i like a check-raise, you rep really thin for value and can have draws or total air, so he probably stacks off with Qx in this spot, as you don't c/r your Qx alot because he has all Ax in his range, so your valuerange is pretty small.

2:00 K4ss

on that AJ4ccs board, what are you scared of if you cbet? he seemed aggressive enough pf to not have Ax in his range and i can't see alot of Jx c/r for value here. on the other hand with checking you almost always allow him to draw to 6+ outs for free, maybe even more. also tbh i cant see you doing this with anything but Jx and 4x, so he can play pretty well against you. i like cbetting and getting it in here, expecting to take it down most of the time.

6:00 J9o

i really like the idea of flatting, atm i dunno if it is good, but i can't see why not but it has never come to my mind and since you have like 0,1% fe pre it is a cool idea :) also love how you make the disappointed "shoot" noise because you flop trips and don't know what to do :D i would probably ck/shove though, i mean come on, what is your flatting range here ;)

11:00 QQ

i also don't like check-calling one street with QQ, he should know that you bet your whiffed air 100% here, so when you check you inevitably have showdown value and he either decides to barrell off or give up when he missed, i cant see anyone stabbing once here.

13:00 T8ss

again, like the flat, but if he decides to cbet this with 725 left and a 400 pot, i don't see him fold to a check-shove ever, so i would rather lead this flop, given there is no hand in his pf range you wouldn't like to see him folding and with checking you give yourself close to 0 fe once he cbets.

19:30 J9ss

you don't consider limping this at all?

if your comment on all this isn't "tl;dr", then thanks alot in advance :)

0:00 A6o

I think a 3bet shove here is definitely worse than flatting against a random. There are definitely a lot of opponents where this is +EV but I think the average random is open raising a tighter range than the average random so that works against us a bit. If you have a decent HEM sample against someone this is actually really easy to calculate against their range using known hands / their open raise % / pokerstove to come up with an estimated hand range. Against a random non-reg I think flatting is definitely optimal though.

The problem I have with a check/raise on this is that even if they flat the raise I think people are going to always stack off better but will probably fold worse hands to a shove at the turn. I think most people are going to be willing to put in 2 bets with worse but rarely 3 unless we do something weird like c/r flop, check turn, shove river (3 bets if we include theirs). Also, I think that on non-king turns our opponents will barrel sometimes barrel the queen again which helps us a bit while flatting. It is probably kind of close but I still prefer flatting against an unknown unless we have like A9+ or so.

2:00 K4ss

I think this is close but against a lot of opponents I'm only getting value out of worse 4X and valuetowning myself against AX and JX. I think that it being impossible for him to have even 1 overcard on this board is going to dramatically reduce how frequently we get floated by non-pair hands.

6:00 J9o

You don't need to worry about balancing your range at all unless you are playing enough games where they are going to be able to adapt against you. For example, if I'm playing against a random who is raising 60% and calling super light 20BB deep I'm NEVER going to shove 76s. It might still be a -EV call for him to make against my range if there are very few bluffs included, but I could be making it MORE -EV for him by never shoving these hands.

As far as this flop specifically, I think that flatting allows him to pick up a second place hand a lot. Also, if he thinks we have high card or something stupid he might try to jam on us here. A lot of guys on merge flat like T9o against me on these flops (seriously) so they might think that I can do that too.

11:00 QQ

I think in hindsight I agree with just folding at the flop on this one. I think it is kind of close because a lot of people just loooooove to stab when you don't cbet, but on this particular texture I don't think too many people are going to try to push out my 3bet range.

I definitely don't agree with them barreling more than once because of me having showdown value here though. The typical random isn't good enough to put me on that specific of a hand range.

13:00 T8ss

You're probably right about this one too. I think if he had 800+ behind I would still stick with check/shoving though.

19:30 J9ss

Honestly, I'm not sure what's optimal here. I think that raise/fold, open shove, and limp all have a lot of merit against certain opponents but without any history it really depends on what we think a typical random does.

P.S. I think I'm fully converted to min-r/call against most people with the 66 hand.

I agree on this. open shoving a 66 for 26BB shouldn't be done though others find it quite something, but in my own opinion I don't feel good about it. thanks for sharing as well.