Submitted by u cnat spel on August 29, 2012 - 01:28
u cnat spel debuts with a two tabling video at the $60 turbo speed level on PokerStars. Also known as Coffee N Ciggz, he discusses his thought process behind his actions.
Getting a higher quality version up in the next hour or two (videos are being done off my computer due to temporary slow connection, so it's a little more difficult logistically).
Submitted by lovelydonk on August 29, 2012 - 08:12.
i redownload it when better quality , but ur explanation is great, and 4 or 5 very interesting spots and different tendency from what we are used to see, makes it fresh ... very good video
You mentioned that T7o is a pretty easy defend readless to a 3x. What range would you fold vs a 3x and what about vs a minraise?
Also, what would be the parameters to make limp-shoving better than open-shoving? What are you assuming their raise-call range to be and how often do you expect them to raise your limps? How often would you expect to win whe they just check back preflop? I'd love to see some details on this because I tend to openshove 33 even @ 30bb.
1) Loved the shove at the very first hand, do you think you can get to folds the same range by raising to 700 instead of shoving, i think looks probably stronger and less bluffy but shoving you increase the fold equity, toughts?
2) I think the problem with limping 33 is that if opponent checks back you're giving free equity with a crappy hand to play post flop, if they're gonna call you're flipping in the best scenario, only positives seems winning chips if opponent folds to the shove, toughts?
If you are going to make other videos i'd like to see you playing hypers.
Submitted by emotionzor on August 30, 2012 - 05:07.
regarding to whether limping or openshoving.. there doesnt have to be a ultimate premade play with those hands. I know vs some players its better to limp/shove (they raise a lot of limps widely), others to openshove because their never raising limps, and some regs have a pretty high 3b no all in% with bluffs and you prefer mr/4bet (since you get way more value this way than limpshoving)
we could agree that if you pick limp-shoving 22-33 as a "default" its gna be slightly better, still due to a lot of population variance imo.
Submitted by u cnat spel on August 30, 2012 - 05:35.
"You mentioned that T7o is a pretty easy defend readless to a 3x. What range would you fold vs a 3x and what about vs a minraise?"
Something like K6-,Q6-,J6-,T6-,96-, 86-, 76-
"Also, what would be the parameters to make limp-shoving better than open-shoving? What are you assuming their raise-call range to be and how often do you expect them to raise your limps? How often would you expect to win whe they just check back preflop?"
A lot of parameters; their limp raise/folding range+frequency, their limp raise/call range+frequency and their calling range against an open shove. Stack size is also important. Open shoving becomes the best play at around 22-23bb and under, imo.
The biggest advantage of limp-shoving is that you get to exploit a raise/folding range. Whenever he raise/calls, it doesn't even matter since your other option was to open-shove anyways. Those 3bbs stolen are quite valuable. Whenever he checks behind, we should still win a decent amount of money from c-betting. We also flop a set ~1/8 times which is sweet :).
Also, I don't think it's a useful exercise to mess around with all of these ranges/frequencies. Empirical evidence is usually the easiest (and sometimes only) way of evaluating the equity of a certain play. Limp-shoving seemed better to me intuitively because open shoving 30bb seemed like a poor risk/reward proposition. After comparing HEM numbers with other people who open shoved, I found my own equity was slightly better than theirs by something like 0.2bb/100. jackstack99 also had a similar result. If you know any people who habitually limp-shove at these stack depths, kindly ask them to compare their results with yours. The more evidence, the better!
Submitted by u cnat spel on August 30, 2012 - 05:41.
1) Loved the shove at the very first hand, do you think you can get to folds the same range by raising to 700 instead of shoving, i think looks probably stronger and less bluffy but shoving you increase the fold equity, toughts?
700 seems fine too. I love the 7xx raise sizing in general, it definitely looks very scary! ;)
Risk less and he might be a little more willing to be a hero. Shove and it might look a little more convincing you have the nuts. Both options should be pretty close, imo.
Solid video! Its nice to see more turbo videos on! Some really interesting spots with great explanation. Thanks
But in the last hand you said "like every single draw missed" which is not true. J9 got there but I believe we can exclude this because of his turn play (c/c) so yeah, we can say that. :D
PS forgot to mention that HUD is hard to see in that quality of the video (at least for me) and also it was a bit fast in moments, maybe you can pause a bit more? :))
But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done!
Comments
Getting a higher quality
Getting a higher quality version up in the next hour or two (videos are being done off my computer due to temporary slow connection, so it's a little more difficult logistically).
OMG IM SO EXCITED!!!!!!
OMG IM SO EXCITED!!!!!!
Don't download this video.
Don't download this video. Real one coming up in a bit with much better quality and new audio. :)
i redownload it when better
i redownload it when better quality , but ur explanation is great, and 4 or 5 very interesting spots and different tendency from what we are used to see, makes it fresh ... very good video
You mentioned that T7o is a
You mentioned that T7o is a pretty easy defend readless to a 3x. What range would you fold vs a 3x and what about vs a minraise?
Also, what would be the parameters to make limp-shoving better than open-shoving? What are you assuming their raise-call range to be and how often do you expect them to raise your limps? How often would you expect to win whe they just check back preflop? I'd love to see some details on this because I tend to openshove 33 even @ 30bb.
Coaching page + Blog
Ok, new version is now
Ok, new version is now up.
It's not only better quality video, it's new commentary too. Thanks for the patience!
Very nice video, solid
Very nice video, solid content, interesting line.
1) Loved the shove at the very first hand, do you think you can get to folds the same range by raising to 700 instead of shoving, i think looks probably stronger and less bluffy but shoving you increase the fold equity, toughts?
2) I think the problem with limping 33 is that if opponent checks back you're giving free equity with a crappy hand to play post flop, if they're gonna call you're flipping in the best scenario, only positives seems winning chips if opponent folds to the shove, toughts?
If you are going to make other videos i'd like to see you playing hypers.
Cheers
high five
high five
regarding to whether limping
regarding to whether limping or openshoving.. there doesnt have to be a ultimate premade play with those hands. I know vs some players its better to limp/shove (they raise a lot of limps widely), others to openshove because their never raising limps, and some regs have a pretty high 3b no all in% with bluffs and you prefer mr/4bet (since you get way more value this way than limpshoving)
we could agree that if you pick limp-shoving 22-33 as a "default" its gna be slightly better, still due to a lot of population variance imo.
"You mentioned that T7o is a
"You mentioned that T7o is a pretty easy defend readless to a 3x. What range would you fold vs a 3x and what about vs a minraise?"
Something like K6-,Q6-,J6-,T6-,96-, 86-, 76-
"Also, what would be the parameters to make limp-shoving better than open-shoving? What are you assuming their raise-call range to be and how often do you expect them to raise your limps? How often would you expect to win whe they just check back preflop?"
A lot of parameters; their limp raise/folding range+frequency, their limp raise/call range+frequency and their calling range against an open shove. Stack size is also important. Open shoving becomes the best play at around 22-23bb and under, imo.
The biggest advantage of limp-shoving is that you get to exploit a raise/folding range. Whenever he raise/calls, it doesn't even matter since your other option was to open-shove anyways. Those 3bbs stolen are quite valuable. Whenever he checks behind, we should still win a decent amount of money from c-betting. We also flop a set ~1/8 times which is sweet :).
Also, I don't think it's a useful exercise to mess around with all of these ranges/frequencies. Empirical evidence is usually the easiest (and sometimes only) way of evaluating the equity of a certain play. Limp-shoving seemed better to me intuitively because open shoving 30bb seemed like a poor risk/reward proposition. After comparing HEM numbers with other people who open shoved, I found my own equity was slightly better than theirs by something like 0.2bb/100. jackstack99 also had a similar result. If you know any people who habitually limp-shove at these stack depths, kindly ask them to compare their results with yours. The more evidence, the better!
1) Loved the shove at the
1) Loved the shove at the very first hand, do you think you can get to folds the same range by raising to 700 instead of shoving, i think looks probably stronger and less bluffy but shoving you increase the fold equity, toughts?
700 seems fine too. I love the 7xx raise sizing in general, it definitely looks very scary! ;)
Risk less and he might be a little more willing to be a hero. Shove and it might look a little more convincing you have the nuts. Both options should be pretty close, imo.
Solid video! Its nice to see
Solid video! Its nice to see more turbo videos on! Some really interesting spots with great explanation. Thanks
But in the last hand you said "like every single draw missed" which is not true. J9 got there but I believe we can exclude this because of his turn play (c/c) so yeah, we can say that. :D
PS forgot to mention that HUD is hard to see in that quality of the video (at least for me) and also it was a bit fast in moments, maybe you can pause a bit more? :))
But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward. How much you can take, and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done!