Totally lost in a $3.50 Hyper turbo - Please help.

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Vayzaroth's picture
Vayzaroth
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Hello HUSNG!

I'm hoping someone will help me out with this hyper turbo hand?

https://www.weaktight.com/h/596df244d390434e748b46c1?simple=1

I know I made mistakes in this hand but I'm not sure what they are.

My general thoughts are, I think I should have cbet a little under half pot. The bet will do the same job of making villain fold his air and I don't think the slightly smaller bet is anymore inducing so it will save me chips and accomplish the same thing.

Although, maybe I should just check give up here. I think his PF calling range hits this board pretty well so maybe checking back and taking a free turn card is the best option for me here. But I don't want to just have to fold to a turn bet on most cards.

I also considered just jamming on the flop, that way I will at least realise my equity but I don't think I fold any better hands when we are this short.

I'm also really unsure about me folding to his jam over my cbet. Calling felt close and I thought it couldn't be too bad but then isn't it quite possible for him to have some of my outs so maybe I'm not getting as good odds as I originally thought?

I'm just really lost in pretty much every part of this hand. I mean maybe it would have been better for me to limp PF? Although I had a note on this guy that he attacks my limps quite a lot.

 

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated. I'm really trying to improve my game lately and your input will be a big help.

Thank you very much in advance.

Steve

 

Also I apologise for not using the HUSNG hand converter but everytime I try, I get this error: An error occurred: Code: 5 Reason: 'Connect error: php_network_getaddresses: getaddrinfo failed: Name or service not known (0)'

PassiveFTW's picture
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As played i can not see how

As played i can not see how we can ever fold flop. You need 31,5% to call, if we put villain on a wide (JT-J7, 89, QJ-Q9, T9, KT) we have 39%. If we put villain on a tigher range (J9-JT, 89, QJ) we have 43,7%. These ranges need to change drastic, if this should ever be a fold, as i think 89 always will be a part of his range. 

I think Q9o fits better in a limping range, as i do not think it can call a 3bet shove, therefore i would rather min raise fold weaker holdings like 97o or something. If he attacks your limps much you might even consider to call his shove. We need around 45% to call a shove 11bbs deep, when we limp. If he shoves over our limp light with a 40% range (pretty wide i think, this is based on ur note) a range for him could be A2o-ATo, A2s-ATs, K2o-K9o, K2s-K8s, Q2o-Q6o, Q2s-Q6s, J2s-J6s, T2s-T6s, 94s-96s, 84s-86s, 73s-75s, 62s-64s, 52s-54s, 42s-43s, 32s, 22-88 we got 49,7%. 

What is ur min. raise fold range here? 

What is ur limping range 11bbs deep vs villain who attack limps much. 

Vayzaroth's picture
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Yeah, I agree. I checked it

Yeah, I agree. I checked it out in equilab and its a clear call. Can I ask, is it ever okay to fold a hand when your getting the odds to call if villain is a huge fish and you'll very likely get an even better equity spot later? I'm guessing probably not in these shallow formats.

Against this guy I think my Q9o is basically the top of my min raise folding range. I was pretty much planning to min raise fold the middle 40% of my range (hugely exploitable but the guy didn't seem to attack min raises and folded a lot to cbets in raised pots), something like 66-22, A3s-A2s, K6s-K2s, Q9s-Q3s, J4s+, T5s+, 95s+, 85s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, A4o-A2o, K7o-K2o, QTo-Q4o, J6o+, T7o+, 97o+, 86o+, 76o (although I'd be calling a jam with Ax). 

My limp range I'm also calling a jam with, 77+, A4s+, K7s+, QTs+, A5o+, K8o+, QJo

This looks awful now I've written it out, seemed alright vs him at the time....

Thoughts?

PassiveFTW's picture
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I dont think it is a good

I dont think it is a good idea to fold +EV spot, due to the shallow format as u said.

 

I dont know if im misunderstanding what ur writing, but A2-A3 and 22-66 is a disaster to have in ur min raise folding range 11bbs deep, i think. These hands are extremly +EV to openshove, also min. raise calling is better than min. raise folding i think, but these hand really should be openshoved imo. 

Also i wouldnt limp small aces, again they just play soo much better as a shove i think. I would probably limp +A8o, +A6s or something if he attacks limps much. (In my experience an attack on a limp 11bbs deep is most likely a shove), if he 3x bluff ur limps at 11bbs small aces is probably good for 3bet shoving. 

Do i make any sense? ;) 

Vayzaroth's picture
Vayzaroth
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Hey again, Thanks for

Hey again,

Thanks for clearing up my question about the EV spots.

yeah sorry I don't think I wrote it properly. I'm definitely calling all Ax and all pocket pairs this short.

He was only ever 3bet jamming at all stack depths over limps.

I agree, I would usually just open jam the small Ax and small pocket pairs but against this guy, rather than giving him an easy fold with his weak/marginal holding I was trying to trap him because he jams over limps so often. With that in mind would you say its still generally better to just open jam those hands despite having this read on villain?

I think the last hand of the game I limped AQs and he jammed 6Ts with ~13BB so he's certainly jamming pretty light over limps

 

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Hey there Vayzaroth Modern

Hey there Vayzaroth

Modern thinking is not to minraise under 12bbs. Either limp trap, or open shove. 

As played the flop is very much a call. It's really hard for villain to have any Ax since he would 3bet jam these preflop.

Open jam preflop this hand under 12bbs!

:)

Vayzaroth's picture
Vayzaroth
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Okay, thanks very much for

Okay, thanks very much for the info

Best of luck

PassiveFTW's picture
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@Adam25185   Hi Adam. Pretty

@Adam25185

 

Hi Adam. Pretty sure u should have a min bet. range at 10-12bbs readless, probably also 9-12bbs. If u only shove or limp trap at 12bbs, ur limps r super exploitable, as u range only consist of "monsters". If you only limp trap and shove at 12bbs or 11bbs for that matter, in what range do u put hand like 89o, T8o 96s, Q6oo etc. etc., pretty sure fold and/or shove isnt the most +EV to play them. 

Furthermore Merssenary suggest a pretty wide min. betting range at 12bbs: http://www.husng.com/content/small-blind-play-11-14bb-deep-raise-openshove-fold-or-limp , i know its old, but why shouldnt it aply anymore? 

Maybe im wrong, and modern thinking is that way. But u will have to make some arguments, or link to some reliable sources, before you get me convinced? :) 

@Vayzaroth

I have started playing poker again after some years break, im currently playing around same stakes as u 7s hu hyper. Send me ur Skype, if u r interested in helping eachother improve :) . 

Vayzaroth's picture
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Pm sent :)

Pm sent :)

adam25185's picture
adam25185
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Hi there PassiveFTWn terms

Hi there PassiveFTW

In terms of limping, you balance off your limp-traps with middling and even sometimes very weak holdings... in other words you have a limp folding range, a limp calling range and (obv) limp trap/limp shove range.

But it's not good to minraise-fold any holding below 12bbs. You just have way too much equity to minraise-fold with the vast majority of your range... so you might as well just open shove and get some more folds. And, in answer to the question "why not just minraise call top end value ATo+ KJs+ etc".. why would anyone ever bluff you in that case? Not balanced.

Limp fold/limp call/open shove below 12bbs QED. :) If you can find me a range of hands with which you can profitably minraise at that depth, I'll plug it into Coffee Calcs and we'll see!