Posting another review video today with the same student.  This time he faces a regular winning opponent.

In the endgame at 50/100, we've seen this opponent limp most of his buttons and it looked pretty much like he's just playing his hands face-up for value - but then he suddenly bluff-shoved over our limp with 87o.

In the hand where we shoved 88 over his limp (around the 47th minute in the video), how should we have proceeded with the hand if he suddenly minraised or even opened for 3x / 4x instead of limping ?  If we forget the last hand of the match, then it'd really make sense for him to only do that with very strong hands, so would 88 be good enough to still get it in - or what's our range for going broke ?

In the past, I've had a lot of trouble against players who play basically like we've seen in the video, but then suddenly make a huge 3x-5x open instead of limping - and I have something like a medium poket pair 88-JJ or AJs / AQo.

Should we default to folding (or only shoving a very tight range) if something like this happens for the first or second time ?

I find that when we're limp shoving an opponent and they fold in the end game, them the next hand they play (they may open fold a hand or two first) they raise, they are often very weak and I would not hesitate to get it in with 88, there's plenty of fold equity there.  If they limp again, it's probably at least as strong of a range (especially if they make an adjustment open fold next button, then limp again, that's usually a sign that they will call a shove).

If the limp shoves never take place, then the range is much stronger.  If we have seen no signs of strong hands and the previous opening range was tighter/stronger, then 88 is going to be a very tough one to play there and may even be a fold.

It's really hard though, because even tight open ranges in the 50-100 sometimes include a little bit of air and usually include a lot of weaker hands than 88 (any PP, weaker aces, etc.).

Let me know if that makes sense/answers your question.

Well, I was thinking that in theory, it doesn't make any sense at all for the opponent to get "creative" with his strong hands once we established a limp / shoving dynamic.  I'd simply expect him to limp again with his strong hand to trap me.  The question is though, whether fish is intelligent enough to know that - maybe he's just playing his hands.

If he does a normal openraise (ie. a minraise), then I'd also see this as weakness - most likely, he's simply tired of getting shoved on and wants to do something about it.

However, these very huge openraises really worry me - especially if ne never opened for 3x or 4x before ...

It's true, but 3-4x in the 50-100 blinds is rarely QQ-AA, and often includes a lot of Ax hands and all types of PPs.  88 isn't doing too badly against that range and there are chips in the pot already.

In short, 88 is almost too strong to ever fold in 50-100 facing an open raise.  I don't recall ever folding it, but I can see situations where it would be correct.  They just don't come up anywhere near often.