You've guys have probably seen this topic a million times before, im just getting into the world of HU SNG's.
I'd like to get an idea of what you guys think the pros and cons for turbos and normal speed are, that way i can get a better feel of which to start playing.
I currently play on stars.
Normal speed:
- Higher ROI
- Fewer games per hour
- Longer deepstack play
- Easier to develop reads after only 1 game
Turbos:
- Lower ROI compared to normal speeds
- More games per hour
- 5-20BB play more important
- Harder to develop reads after only 1 game
The hourly is probably around the same for both.
Imo turbos are easier to multitable too, because decisions are often easier since a lot of the game happens at shallow stacks.
If you're good at shove/fold poker, play turbos...if you're more comfortable playing with deeper stacks, play regulars. In the end, you have to get good at both imo, so why not mix it up? ;)
I definitely agree with what thrift posted above. I haven't been playing long, just a few months, and I'm definitely more comfortable playing the normal speeds.
When I play turbos I find there's more luck involved as I have to count on my cards early on and might end up trying to play back from a hole by the time I think I've got a read on the other guy, and if I misread him, it's likely over. I find normal speed gives me more of a chance to poke and prod the other guy before the number of BBs becomes critical.
Totally agree!
You will have a bigger edge at the regular speed games.
One thing I should add is that I've also had the opposite experience several times. I've started running over a guy and, if it had been a turbo, I don't think he would have adjusted in time.
I should mention, I'm playing on pacific where the reg is 8 min levels and the turbos are 3 min levels.
As it was regular speed, he starts to figure things out and it's still only 15/30, maybe 25/50. Then he adjusts to what I'm doing and then I am adjusting to his adjusting and it feels like I've got a dogfight on my hands.
Anyone else have a similar experience? Do turbos cut down on this or is this a leak in my play? i guess it could be both ;-)
The thing is that you gain some +EV with every adjusting move you make. The more moves you make the more EV you accumulate. There is obv a ceiling on the number of these moves and that's when villain starts adjusting. If you don't encounter that ceiling in turbos, that means you didn't fully exploit him and you ended the game through some (un)lucky fluke. Of course, there are nitty villains who are willing to fold their way through 75/150 and they're obv better value in turbos since the blinds go up faster and your hourly increases.
Also, you should note that, the shallower the stacks, the smaller your edge is against most villains, as you don't have as much room for postflop play. In turbos stacks get shallow faster so the edge is smaller
If I'm understanding you correctly, the ideal flow is as follows:
- Make continuous adjustments to Villian until maximally exploiting his regular play
- Maximum exploit point is reached just before Villian begins to adjust to Hero
- Recognize Villian's adjustments and adjust accordingly in as few hands as possible => repeat until end of match
Oversimplified, I'm sure... like saying you'll win Wimbledon by just hitting the ball where the other guy can't reach it... but is it a reasonable high-level view?
I think you nailed it there.
Figure out what he's doing, maximally exploit it, figure out if he changes, adjust so that you're maximally exploiting it as quick as possible, repeat.
It's like chasing somebody who is running from you. You keep moving and turning while staying on them. If you fail to turn left when they turn left, you won't be on them and you risk losing them. Throw in some more complexities (tunnels, jumps, turns, obstacles) and you have the form of poker known as husng.
What about not maximally exploiting? You pick the good spots and exploit him and keep an honest image so he doesnt adjust and you can easily exploit him when blinds go higher. I think it´s a good strategy too, if villain makes big mistakes.
what is you thought process when exploiting villian?
Player type pre/post.
Hom muh he cbets/ call cbets
if he chases draws
...
Normal gives you more time to figure out your opponent and develop a strategy to beat him/her
If you are just getting into the world of SNG its best to start off with Normal games and once you are familiar, comfortable with the it, you can move to turbo.