Just watched this. Some interesting maths and graphs at the end.

I think this video would be perfect for anyone who is having trouble or needs to brush up on their endgame as stacks in this start at 10bb. Gives a good feel for ranges against certain types of players. I would of loved to have seen a couple of vids like this when I was first strugling with end game, I think it would of been a huge help. Cheers

Woah, this format is just insanely crazy !  I don't play on FT anymore, and this is definitely the most crazy thing I've ever seen in my life.

I've already played a lot of Super Turbo's myself, but no format was as crazy as this one.  Well, I guess the fish love it because they can quickly flip ;-)

Great video, Primo :-)

I really like how you addressed all these situations where your opponent does some weird things like limping or minraising, it was really great to watch and a good lesson for the endgame.

I certainly won't ever play a single of these games myself, but I'd still love to see another video or two because you can learn so much about the endgame from it.

Nice video. More and more of games of this format across sites.

But I dont agree with one thing. You jam those low suited cards and in the same time minraise your big hands. I think it's -EV play.

Let's say we have AJo and 64s. As separate cards (not included in any strategy) u can push AJo up to 91,6 BB and 64s up to 1,6BB. Numbers are from chubukov.

If u are useing Nash you can push AJo up to 20BB (basically same as chubukov) and 64s up to 16,4BB. But even useing Nash in a long run it's -EV to push 64s as standalone cards. The reason you can do it up to 20BB useing Nash is that you gain additional calls when you push AJo. So, if you push 64s and minraise AJo you're getting negative expectation of pushing 64s and not getting additional value from AJo.

I hope it's understandable, you know english is not my first language :).

One thing just came to my mind while blogging about this:

If your opponent plays exactly according to Nash - and let's assume he memorized the charts and is using some kind of a hud to display the bb values, so he's not giving away any timing-tells - you can't get any edge over him, right ?

I mean, Nash has been designed to behave exactly like this - so in theory it should be impossible for you to gain any edge over that guy.

This means that the games are not beatable anymore, especially on higher limits where you can assume almost anyone to know Nash.  You can only be break-even, and the rake turns you into a loser.

Another thought I had was, if you modify the Nash chart by rounding everything to whole integer numbers and also round your stack size to whole bb's, how much does this affect your EV ?  Would it be a sufficient leak to make your opponent beat the rake ?

My idea behind this is simply, if you play strictly Nash and a good opponent on higher limits deviates from it, then it's mostly mistakes - but small mistakes.  Mistakes of the sort where he calls with 7 bb where Nash says 7.1, or counts 275 chips as 10 bb and folds because Nash has 9.7.  Things like that.

So if I see this correctly, you basically have to hope that your opponent doesn't know Nash.

@Manolo, your thinking on way too high of a level, your right in that it would skew NASH, but thats only really applicable if your opponent is intelligent enough to read that via your showdowns, and adapt to it.  ALSO, Chubukov assume your hand is face up, your opponent knows your cards, AND he is calling a perfect range. At the $28s (which we were playing), I think these are very off base, and I just think your kind of over complicating, and I know exactly where your coming from, but think about it deeper, or consider the opponents your playing, and I think you might come to a different conclusion.

And yea, your english was fine :)

thats right, if you find somebody you believe is playing NASH, quit them immediately.

a small deviation from nash should not make it profitable enough for you to beat rake, like if he shoves just a few hands JUST over what it should be shoved for, but makes no other mistakes, you prolly wont be beating rake, there are other ways to approach these, limping/min-raising/etc., but if your playing push/fold (NASH) you really are just looking to find opponents who deviate strongly from it

I neglected FE and took for the purpose of example chubukov chart. My idea is that if we deviate from Nash strategy there is no point in pushing hands like 64s. Insteed of 64s, with addition of FE we can push according to chubukov but widen the range we push, keeping the hierarchy of playability. I mean instead of pushing 64s we can push hand like J7 10BB deep. 
Of course it is only theory and most of ppl  I play is really bad so this is not aplicable :).

hi primordial,

can you explain how it can never be -ev to call nash? what if you know your opponent is uber tight and only shoving 1010+ aq+ at 10bb, and you are sitting there with some hand nash says you should call with at 10bb. wouldnt making that call be -ev? i guess i dont quite understand nash, would you mind elaborating on it a bit or pointing me to a video where it is explained? thanks.

I know this comment was old but hopefully the poster gets the answer.  The calling chart for NASH should only be used if your opponent is ABSOLUTELY using the NASH shoving range 100% of the time.  If your opponent is tight and only playing a small range then you shouldn't use NASH.  With that said, you should still opt to use the NASH shoving range when in the SB.

LJ is right (sorry for very late reply) mostly.

You can even do better than the NASH sb range, however you usually need some more information when 8bb deep or less, NASH SB is fine to default with, whereas NASH bb is too loose to default with (based on the average opponent's calling and shoving ranges under 10bb).