PrimordialAA Video 03 - $105s on Cake

heh... I was just informed Sandzer (the guy I play twice in this video who I say I have a VERY VERY large edge on) is like top 15 on the leaderboards for $100s :), so goes to show how big of an edge you can gain on even regulars who have been dominating the game for a while by making the correct adaptions to their 'style'

I'd love to play more on Cake, but I just HATE the software :(

Hey, Primo, is it PowerPoker default layout? Looks like a custom mod. Where did you get it?

nope, that's power poker's default layout :)

hey primo,

in your first match against this guy who limps a ton of buttons, at like 6:30 into the vid you pick up AK oop at 40bbs deep. villain limps and you raise to 3.5x. was there any reason you picked 3.5x instead of 4x?

thanks

filthy

my hand dominated a very large % of his range on hands he will give action on, im totally comfortable w/playing AK OOP, especially against him, and I dont mind a call here at all. Also there is no real reason why he should expect me to be 4xing since I think this was one of my first raises at lower eff stacks to his limps, but I dont remember exactly. I raise a pretty tight range to limps, so unless I have reason to think I have alot of FE my range is generally pretty strong, so when eff stacks are <30bb I often don't mind raising to just 3x rather than 3.5x or 4x as well

obv this changes if I expect to get called a large %, then I will size my raises bigger, but vs him I def. did not, and if 3.5xing AK can inspire him to call a bit of his weaker As / Ks / whatever, than thats fine with me :). Hope that was clear, lemme know if you need more explanation

that was clear. thanks!

you need to get a bit more games in b4 judging.. cake can be weak and about a year ago was absolutely bad.. since then a ton of solid hu players have come over and most the sportsbetting donks are gone..there are a ton of solid regs now but most play from 200 to 500..i no of some very good 100 regs but not sure if you have ran into them yet....gl at the 100s..

paulgees822

haha, yea, 100s arent really my game, I play $200s-500s with most of my volume being in $220 and $300/330s on Stars lately. I'm just here for 1 month for a rake race, depo'd a small amount so im not rolled for anything higher, and will be gone at the end of the month. The $100 reg I think is alright from what i've seen is SILLLYME, and as for other regs on the site, yourself, nutsnutsnuts, ~IceWater~, S.Thoro, JCSmoodge, and maybe 1-2 others are all pretty good, but there are alot of regs there with MASSIVE leaks, including sandzer... so I don't want to say CAKE is soft overall, obv the action is bad there and there aren't nearly as many donks as on FTP or Stars, but I think alot of the regs beating the 100s/200s/300s there would get annihilated on Stars at similar levels (the above few I listed being exceptions).

I'm the up and comin' sensation on Cake don't forget about meeeeeeeee. =)

I think the rake race you're doing will be hard since you have to compete w/ cash players and lately the SNG traffic has been HORRID on Cake (but hopefully you finish deep). I'm in the midst of deciding what secondary site to play at right now since the donkey pop'n has been somewhat depleted in the $100+ HU SNG's.

yes, the way i said it came i  off alil harsh.. but you hear alot how bad cake is from outsiders and i play on ftp on the side and think ftp has worse players.. even tho i haven't played as many games my roi and avg profit over there are higher. guess no one knows were the weakest are overall....that video a few players did appear pretty soft..any ways gl and welcome....:)

paulgees822

helloooo
thats me in your vid haha
I havent actually seen it cos i dont care enough to pay for the membership etc.
anyhoo, it seems im getting berated a bit here, you must know results speak for themselves, if everyone played the same then we'd all lose to rake right? i know my style appears weak and too "call-ish" and whatever but trust me i do no wot im doing lololol.
I've heard rumours that you used to be wutang4ever?? Well, your HUGH edge isn't really evident in our past results, i think its 13-9 to me last time i checked (forgive me if im wrong and that's not you, just what I heard)

Much Love
Sanderzbaby

no no , I have never played on the Cake network before a few days ago, so I never had any other names. I've always been PrimordialAA on Stars, FTP, and now Cake. I don't mean to say you don't know what your doing, and obviously whatever your doing is working well, you do very very well against bad players and you've made a solid amount of money relative to the stakes you play, and congratulations, I mean your stats this year are an accomplishment, I DO however think you are going to have a very very very hard time vs players like myself or other regs once you move up in limits if your style doesn't change, I also am not sure the style your playing now would be a winning style on the stars or FTP turbo games, especially FTP because of the different structure. Anyways, I'm not trying to be insultive, my job is to analyze my own play and the play of the others that I see, so I was just doing my best to do that, good luck,

              -Primo

ah sorry my mistake then. Yeah i see what your saying, time will tell i guess, i have a decent ROI at the 200s on cake (8% but only 500 game sample so too small to tell really) and I was crushing the 300s for a little while but had a realy bad run over christmas. I think it was more me not being able to deal with the stress of losing certain amounts of money a day. I find that from when i have played regs accidently, in the long run i'm probably about break even with them, which is what you'd probably expect.

As for moving up stakes I am well over-rolled for the 200s but i just choose not to for now because I make decent enough money at the 100s so i feel to avoid stress again just stay here for the time being. As for the different sites being tougher, maybe they are, i dont know, i dont play them, my table selection is good though so it may not matter as much as you'd think. Either way I have no plans to change sites so it isn't even an issue. Thanks for the compliment on this years stats, I checked your pokerstars, also impressive.

Much Love
Sanderzbaby

First of all, I love that the guy you ran over in the video is commenting here Primo :P Haha.  But sanderz, congrats to you and your results - can't laugh at that.  It's actually a bit disheartening that, that kind of playing style can crush so well and my adaptive style runs so bad.

Anyway, Primo, got some questions for ya.  At the moment I'm seeing some contradictions here between this vid and your intermediate concepts video.  I could be wrong so I'm looking for clarification.  You had said in the IC video that against tight-passive opponents you are going to keep your raise sizes smaller.  Which makes sense, if your opponent is so tight-passive that he's going to fold to 65 at 15/30 then why make it 90?  But in this vid you stay at 3x at 15/30 and say it's because you don't expect him to 3-bet etc.  So did you feel he was more likely to call 2.5xish raises pre or what?

Also, in the IC video you say that your cbets are going to be closer to 1/2 the pot than 2/3 and that the cbet frequency will be closer to 100%.  But in this video you most often make 2/3 cbets and said that players make the mistake of cbetting at 100% and thus allowing your opponent to adapt.

Maybe I'm missing something about this opponent in particular that had you deviate from what you laid out in the power point, so could you explain?  Thanks coach.

Yup, no problem, the intermediate concepts video was designed to beat low-mid stakes range games (up through maybe $55s i'd say and against the bad players at $110s), however against somebody who is a thinking player, you obviously cannot be so blatently obvious or they will SURELY begin to adapt.

against sandzer I 3x'd rather than 2x'd because yea, I thought he might begin to call more frequently OOP if I just MR'd, and also, if your opponent is never 3betting AND ck/folding a decent amount of flops, than 3xing is actually a more obvious solutions, because your FE pre stays high, you force them to see play large pots OOP, you dont risk spewing $ by getting 3bet alot, and your cbet stays very valuable. Again for the cbet, it was simply a matter of whether or not I felt he was a thinking player, if he wasn't terrible, than he is probably more likely to float 1/2 pot cbets, and I was gaining such a huge edge by having him fold a high frequency, I wasn't about to jepordize that by trying to save a few more chips in the cases that he calls or played back (semi-rare) and possibly having his frequencies go up.

These are both very good questions, and I could have stuck perfectly to how I described in the chart, and it might have been equally as effective, however vs this specific player I had a feel he was a thinking player and he didn't seem totally clueless, so I chose to just do what I felt was maximizing my edge at the time, but it brings up a very good point

The Intermediate Concepts chart is a BEGINNING for learning how to adapt, it's definently a great base and it should give everyone a feel for what type of adjustments you should be looking to make vs a ton of different player types, but it's (of course) impossible to list everything in there, and also doesn't take into account if your player is a thinking player, how they might try to adapt to you, and how you are going to have to re-adjust (hopefully before they even have a chance to do it, or before it's blatently obvious that they've changed). this is known as a 'meta-war', and something thats super hard to show in a slideshow or something like that format, but by knowing all the adaptions in that slideshow, and THEN thinking ahead when you have a thinking player and out-adapting his adjustments, will surely put you farrrr farrrrr ahead of a hugee % of the field of players these days.

Hope this answered everything, as always, lemme know if you have any more questions :),

            -Primo

Again!

By putting the IC video to work I have suddebly started to crush the lower limits, with my only few losses in the last 24 hours or so being one to a K5 all in (versus my KAs), after the player got mad that I was appearing to "know" what hands he had every time, the second game was when I had to go early after a long game. Anoher I lost due to stupidity.

In one run I played the same player 4 times, he decided to adjust "to play me at my own game" (in chat) and went very LAG, and was gutted when I still crushed as I adapted my style back again.

Great starter video series Primo

thanks alot!! and glad to see it working well in action for you! :)

wishes I hadn't said anything suddenly went on a amazing run of losses...

Example: LAG player, had been limping his buttons, calling any of mine

Hero holding JJ on ~1750 BB (50)

Villian holding 7c8c on ~1250 BB (25)

Villain Limps 25

Hero raises to 100

Villain calls 50

Flop 3sJhJd rainbowed

Hero checks (had played 2 hands the same and each time the villain had stabbed the pot with paired board and nothing on it)

Villain checks

Turn card 9c

Hero raises 175

Villain shoves all in

Hero Calls

River card   T

Villain wins with a straight

Same villain:

later after fighting back

Hero 950 chips SB (50)

Villain 2050 BB (100)

hero AA raises 150

Villain Calls

Flop:

A47

Hero Shoves

Villain calls shows 57

Turn 6

River 8

Villain wins with a straight

I went to bed after that one...

hmm just been checking one or two of my losses and I can see that a few of those games were down to get the opponent types wrong for example I had a player this morning:

OOP call >50% of the time

limping lots on button

folding my cbets

rarely cbetting on his button

I placed him as semi-tight-passive

however about 30 hands in I figured he was more loose-passive and adjusted and absolutely nailed him, especially using the "advanced thinking"

I had JJ this time and he called a min raise preflop

flop came 224 rainbow and he shoved

i couldnt see him calling with a 2 in his hand unless he had an Ace/King based on past decisions, and the chances are obviously pretty low, I called with my Js and he turned over an K3s, tbh I had been pounding on him with min raises and limps all over the place and had chipped his lead off from +300 to -500, I think he had interpreted my change in tactics wrongly. Anyway he turned over the K3 and the turn came a 5, and i could see him hitting the A or 6 the way my hands have been running!

Fortunately the JJ held up this time

i have played you a handful of times on cake at one or two hundreds and was told that you had a video of our match. Am curious to the truth of that and your comments on the game. I play under the name spewtardo.

spewtardo

Hey if you could play some more on cake, preferably the $50's as I'm just moving up to them. I consider myself a farely competent player at the levels just sometimes lose my footing, thanks.

good vid.

this was the only Cake video i've made spewtardo, so if there is, I think it'll be here

I'd love to see some more video on cake Primo! Maybe some $20 and $50 games. As I think cake is a great option for the mid stakes grinders due to the smaller rake are great RB!

Love your videos, you explain yourself very well.