PokerStars Policy on "TimeBanking" Stall Strategies
I received a message from a regular heads up sng player on PokerStars today. He was sitting another regular as part of his normal sessions, but this regular would use the maximum amount of time on every decision against him. When checking the stalling player's other games, the stalling player was not using the maximum amount of time.
So the player sent the following email to PokerStars (and gave me permission to post these, names redacted):
"I was hoping you could help me with an issue I am having with a player. Player XXX is currently "time banking" on me every single hand. I understand that we receive a certain amount of time per hand to play the hand. I also understand that it may be tough to verify if a player is abusing this rule as compared to just playing slowly. I'm quite certain that if you look at this particular situation you will see this is a blatant example of a player abusing the rules to their advantage. I know that some players are often in many tables so they play slower. Or, because a certain opponent is more difficult, they take more time to act on certain tables. This is 100% clearly not the case here. While playing against me he is also in another table where he is acting at a normal speed every single hand. It is impossible to say that he is slower because of multiple tables, when my table is the only one he is playing slow on. Also, it is impossible to say he has to "think about hands" more vs me.
Again, that sounds good in theory, but when he is doing it 100% of the time, even when a large amount of hands he is just open folding the blinds that is obviously not what is going on. There have been reports in the past of players sitting in the "No Blind Increase" lobbies and going out of their way to make games last as long as possible hoping the other player just leaves. I certainly hope that is not allowed at these types of games, or ANY speed games for that matter. Although I have not always agreed with all of the rules Stars has told me over the years, I have always followed them. It will be quite disappointing if you allow someone to get away with such an obvious breach of rules by using this loophole to take advantage of the time bank. I look forward to your quick response."
A little long, but it looks like an effective argument to me, without a lot of petty details or emotional stuff going on. I think in these situations it definitely helps not to go off on a long tangent or get too personal and detailed about the player, because then you risk support looking at this as a player vs player personal conflict, rather than a potential spirit of the rules violation.
Anyways, PokerStars gave a reply shortly after:
"Hello XXX,
Thank you for contacting PokerStars.
We are sorry to hear that 'XXXX' is giving you a hard time while playing slow on purpose. We understand the frustration on your end due to this action, but do not worry since we are eager to investigate this further and also penalize him accordingly. We appreciate your great description of your issue.
We have forwarded your email to a Poker Specialist for their review and action. You will receive a response as soon as possible.
Your patience is highly appreciated in the meantime, XXX, thank you for choosing PokerStars.
Regards,
William C.
PokerStars Support Team"
When the player showed me this reply, my first reaction was mild surprise. It sounds like they might actually do something to the stalling player. My best guess was an emailed warning, which I think is an effective, measured reaction that likely resolves this to everybody's benefit a majority of the time. The player replied with "Thank you. I think it would be a very bad precedent to set if the answer were, 'players are allowed to exploit loopholes in our rules/terms of service if they find them' - XXX"
PokerStars then got back to the player a bit later with this:
"Hello XXX,
Thank you for your reply.
Do not worry, if this player is abusing while playing deliberately slow on purpose, our Poker Specialists will definitely be able to find this and penalize him accordingly. We will do our best to make this right and allow you to play without being slowed down.
Please let us know if we can assist you further. We hope you have a great day, XXX!
Regards,
William C.
PokerStars Support Team"
Shortly after this message, the player ran into the formerly stalling regular at the tables. I say formerly, because the regular stopped using the time bank to the max time and ceased his stalling.
Maybe I'm just a support dork, but I thought this was a great resolution all around. The stalling player was within the technical rules, was likely warned about breaking the spirit of the rules, and the situation was resolved without anger or unfairness towards either player.
What do you think about the resolution?
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JEFLUNA says:
The time-bank can be used to the max and if a player wants to do that.....EVERY HAND!.
If PS doesn't agree they have to change their software and make a shorter time-bank.
Everybody has the right to choose their own strategy in my opinion ....NOT the opponent or PS.
Example and question ; going all-in every hand is that right!?? It's a strategy...used by some fish and it's even
frustrating. U gone complain about that too?
And how many hands you may use the time-bank to the max? It's ridiculous to complain
about this issue in my opinion. I understand your frustration, but you can better practise patience or go
multi-tabling yourself. That's poker!
Good luck at the tables! ; )
RyPac13 says:
Interesting viewpoint.
If players abuse the chat would you also say we need to get rid of the chat option in game?
It doesn't seem too difficult to simply tell a player "hey, stop" as the time bank isn't designed for this purpose.
I agree with you, that if it's there and it's allowed, it's fine to do. I did it myself one time a few years ago, I consider it silly in hindsight, but I don't believe they were enforcing this at the time.
Going all in every hand is different, the games aren't designed not to go all in every hand or anything like that, players can clearly take any action that they wish.
Think about the disconnect policy. What if a player kept purposely disconnecting for 30 second intervals, over and over and over but only against the same opponent every single time they played. Would that be fair? If Stars said it's fair game, fine, but I suspect in that case they would also warn the player.
Just a few thoughts, it's not a serious situation or anything like that, but I found it interesting that Stars was taking this policy, I think it's pretty decent.
JEFLUNA says:
Hi Ryan thx for your reaction! I appreciate that!
Abusing the chat-box is not right ofcourse, but a little bit different in my opinion because it
has nothing to do how you play the hand (in what time,what betsize etc.).
I understand the comparision but abusing the chatbox is on most sites not allowed and it's in
their policy to respect the other player. But that is also a grey area in some cases. Because when u write something
like zzzzzzzzzzzzz ... or donk or fish is that abuse? It happens a lot.
But when you type words like motherfucker or asshole or I gone kill you, it is on most sites forbidden to write that, and I
agree with that. What I wanted to say is where is the border!? The site has some rules and a policy and the issue of
the time-bank and the disconnect-issue is allowed if the software and their rules allow it.
I know it's frustrating and maybe not fair , poor etiquette etc. But when it's allowed , it's allowed.
You can't make different rules for different players in my opinion.
I also understand the good intention of PS, but ......you know my point of view.
And....you never know what's happening at the other end of the wire behind his screen... maybe he is an invalid man with
one finger trying to play poker. Or a man is talking to his new wife and he just can concentrate on one table...
You don't know what's the reason.
Good luck at the tables! ; )
kaiserzozz says:
if he is an invalid man, he will slow down at all the tables he's playing, not in a single table over several tables.
JEFLUNA says:
LOL, yeah u r probably right, sorry for that bad example.
But i hope my opinion is clear.
STP1923 says:
Just found this,new at husng.
I would like to comment on this issue as I find it important.
Stars gives a TimeBank and every player has the RIGHT to use its whole TimeBank. The solution is simple for people not to abuse it, just make the time bank like in MTT.
Instead of giving 30 seconds(for ex) of time bank each hand just set a few minutes of timebank for the whole game which the player can use at their discression. After this passes,no timebank anymoreand you have to act in the normal time. Abuse it and you will pay if you need it afterwards. When a player uses time bank to open-fold thats just ABUSING the rules any way you see it.
Regarding the chat analogy, there's alwaysthe block chat option which makes it simple.
Cheers!
dinamozg says:
I think this is execelent news. That stalling is really tilting, its mostly done by fish but I also have several situations when regs did that to me on purpose. Its nice to know that I can do something about it in future.
FreakOfNature says:
Once again proves that stars is one of the best run sites on the net.
RyPac13 says:
Updated Email
> Hello XXX,
>
> Thank you for contacting us with your report.
>
> Please note that we do not allow this practice in Heads-Up SNG
> with No Blind Increases, as we believe this contravenes the
> spirit of the game and shows very poor etiquette. We will review
> this account and warn the player accordingly. Any future abuse
> will lead to account suspension.
>
> If you have any further questions, please let us know, and thank
> you for helping us maintain high standards of game integrity.
>
> Regards,
>
> Silvia F.
> PokerStars Support Team