PHMERC and the Upper Classmen: $60s Edition

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC takes on the upperclassmen of the $60 heads up sngs

PHMERC takes on some of the better players at the $60 heads up sng level on PokerStars.  He talks about how to properly gather information to exploit winners regulars at this level.  He also focuses on manipulating ranges with different preflop 3-bet sizes and playing optimally with information he gathers postflop.

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adastfe's picture

adastfe says:

Great video once again! Any plans on doing the same at 100s? 

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

Yup, I'm doing this at every level each week up to 500s

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

btw, it's interesting that all of my videos get a ton of 5 star votes and then a single 1 star vote. For anybody who actually thinks my videos are ever anything less than 5 stars, please post a comment with your vote so I can address whatever the issue may be. Glad all of you seem to be enjoying my vids though.

crstn's picture

crstn says:

5 stars from me. And having haters being successfull often just says you that you are doing things right

Love the Videos. In generally I prefer one table videos - but I think this is just personal preference others may love more 2-tabling videos.

I would really like to see a Video (with a theory part) in which you describe 15-30 BB play against different opening and calling ranges in and oop.

I know there are a lot of super/hyper turbo videos covering this topic, but in your Videos I feel you are really great with 3-bet-shoving according to Insane-Steves Spreadsheet. You know exactly when to min/raise fold or min/rais call with what range and against what kind of opponent.

So I really would like seeing you covering that topic. Plus oftentimes we have more reads on opponents ranges in turbos than in super/hyper turbos.

 

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

lol totally agree, if you have haters it means you're doing something right and I have tons of haters lol. I just don't like cowardly haters rating my vids 1 star and then going on with their pathetic lives, that's tilting. anyway...

I really appreciate your thoughts, I thought that people would enjoy two tabling better, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you guys think? Would you rather me 1 table or 2 table in my live vids? I'll do whatever the majority thinks is better.

 

In terms of a 15-30bb theory part I would love to do that but I have to finish the "Upper Classmen" series first so maybe I can do that for the first video after the series. Let me know what else you guys would like ideally and I'll do it. Thanks for the input, keep it comin.

RyPac13's picture

RyPac13 says:

My word of advice is to just ignore a 1 star rating unless it comes with a comment.

There have been times where the last 3 videos were 1 starred within 10 minutes of each other, no comments, including an otherwise very popular Mersenneary video.

I don't want to make the ratings system some private witch hunt, maybe we'll just disable it at some point, but the comments are king in my world.  If a user watches a video that changes their game entirely, or that offends them so much, they will post about it and that's really the goal as far as extreme ratings go (hear what's great or terrible).  Otherwise the comment section serves a very useful purpose of asking questions about the video and getting answers.

adastfe's picture

adastfe says:

You explain your thought process very clearly playing 2 tables. There's no need for you to play just one. Also it increases the number of interesting spots. 

Slatey's picture

Slatey says:

Great Video...if you have a link for Hokie's graph, i'd like to use it as my background also if you dont mind.

1) 1:45 you mention J9s is the bottom end of your 3bet calling range. Is this vs unknown, at this level i assume? How does your 3bet calling range expand vs villian at 20/30/40% stages? (yes i do realize other factors are considered)

2) 3:00..how much stock do you put in villians hud stats since dynamics and freq. change in turbo's so quickly. Contemplating the A6 shove at 20bb's eff. vs 50% button raiser for exam.

3) 19:00...J7s...w/ 2nd pair and a fd on turn why do you bet out 1/2 pot for pot control? If he as an A and rr's big or shoves, it puts in in a tough spot? With a decent amount of equity on turn why not just call? or have you found it better in general to take the initiative and control pot size and fold to a big rr rather than have to decide to call turn or river?

4) 24:00 ..J10s ..you mentioned rr a smaller size with it to induce calling from a wider range.

5) 31:00...3/9s...why would you call this saying "your very likely beat...but you have to call this vs regs as to not be so exploitable" ..can you explain that a little further or break down the math ;) (u do mention that you need more info on him to fold there)

thx

 

 

 

 

Slatey's picture

Slatey says:

My vote is for 1 tabling....better complete insight into each hand and all dynamics vs semi-part. picture multi.

 

dinamozg's picture

dinamozg says:

I really like your video and the fact that you choose to play against better regs on this level, I'll probably post some questions later. At first I didn't like it so much that you play to tables but after a while I get used to it and I think is better like this because we can see more interesting spots. So I vote for two tables.

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

cool. also if you guys have trouble picking up anything or if a spot is just interesting on two tables at the same time you can just rewind a little bit and rewatch it. i think every single time i've watched a vid i've done that at least once or twice. keep comin in with the input so far it seems like 2 tables is the favorite

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

Slatey,

I do have hokie's ev pic file lol, email me and I'll ship it to you.

1:45: Yea this is my std vs an unkown who I suspect is 3betting a "normal" range of like 18-22%. Vs 30/40% 3betters I am def calling this hand but I'm also def mr pre vs those people. The bottom of my calling range here is prob T9o, T8s, J9o, maybe 98s

3:00: My read on his pfr % is not really based on hud stats at these stx. It def is a part of it but I would say a very small part and the very beginning of the formation of my read here. I am paying attention to villain's tendencies to see if they are changing as stx change. The pfr % on my hud is obv just an overall # so I can only count on that so much. In situations like this tendency and gameflow matter more than anything. I like shoving A6 because it has terrible playability and I have card removal to Ax hands in villain's range so it's a fine shove.

19:00: I didn't bet half pot, I bet 165 into 420, that's why I bet that size. I think if I bet closer to half pot or bigger, I tighten villain's range and he will be more tempted to raise or shove. Also I think only Ax hands with 2 pairs will raise over this, I don't think a naked A will raise I think it will call. I wanted to bet a size that induced him to call, if he raises it's fine I'm shoving all day. I don't want to c/c, although that would be okay, because I would rather take initiative and try to dictate the size of the pot instead of letting villain do that. If I check he can double barrel any size he wants and I don't like that because if he bets too big I'm gonna have to shove instead of calling. I like my lead here and I think my size is perfect.

24:00: If you are talking about my 3b pre yes that is correct. We should do the smaller of our two sizes w/JT because we play well vs a wide calling range....do you have a question about this?

31:00: Sure I can elaborate on this. It has nothing to do with math first off and everything to do with balance and image. If I wasn't recording this as a video and just happened to be playing this guy at 60s for some reason, I'd prob fold because I don't need to balance at all I don't ever play 60s and I'll prob never see him again unless he sits 200+. I was trying to act as if I was a $60 reg in these games and showing guys who regularly play those stakes how to be properly balanced vs regs. If this is a reg, meaning you will probably play him more often, he needs to see that he can't bluff here because we just called with the bottom of our value range. I think a lot of times his bet here is a J or an A but most likely a J so my instinct is def to fold and that would be the most exploitable play. I'd rather play a little more "balanced" vs a reg and gather the info at the same time, it's a win/win as long as I properly adjust my image and play off it properly later (this is the key to beating higher stakes regs on a daily basis, I'll show you guys this in the next Upper Classmen videos that are coming out at higher stakes).

nodeg's picture

nodeg says:

Great vid.  I really enjoyed your insight.   There was, however, one spot I didn't understand at all.

32:50 - You elect to bet/call A3o here, ~14bb deep.  I don't understand the logic of bet/calling A3o but jamming stronger aces.  I mean, the fact that villain is 3bet jamming fairly wide would make it better to bet/call strong aces and jam hands like A3 right?  I would appreciate it if you take the time to explain this a little more in depth.  What ranges do you put the villain's 3bet jam at that make b/c better than just open jamming?

Thanks for your time.

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

hmm I'm not sure why I said if i had a stronger Ace I would open shove lol. I should mr/call all Ax if my read here is that he doesn't really have a flatting range but just a 3b shoving range at these stacks **see Skate's article on hard 3betting/3bet shoving points on 2p2: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/58/heads-up-nl/skates-points-critical-...

I like open shoving, I just think mr/calling is better if villain doesn't have a calling range (or a very very small calling range) because I think it will be easier for him to 3b shove hands like J9s, T8s, etc that would never call an open shove and shouldn't really be flatting. Open shoving would be perfectly fine here though at our stack depth.

And yes you are correct if anything it is better to bet/call bigger Aces and open shove low/marginal Aces. Not sure why I said that lol.

jason kiddo's picture

jason kiddo says:

very nice video,

i would like to know how to you copy paste from stars lobby to sharkscope?? ( there is only one person in the lobby )

my bad... it works with CTRL C... how stupid ive been over 2-3 years :)) probably i tried once or twice and didnt work and left it like that.

 

p.s. I guess this video helped me a lot more than i thought

 

 

Jason Kiddo on Stars and FullTilt
Myamoto on CAKE POKER

JasonKiddo on Ipoker

matvaju's picture

matvaju says:

Nice video again.

Madammerocke 31 hands in the match and he 3bets u first time. U flat KJs. Isn't KJ dominated too much? I mean if he would 3beting a lot, its definatly a call then, but it was his first 3bet. And do u stackoff on Jxxx board if he cbets flop and turn.

Glad that some1 asked about A3o mr/call and A6 openship, cuz i felt lost when u said that too. lol.

 

nodeg's picture

nodeg says:

Thanks for the reply PHMERC.  Still, aren't you basically a flip vs hands like J9s/T8s?  Wouldn't it be better for the villain to fold it and give us 6% of the effective stacks than to try and manipulate the villain into a flip(from the portion of his jamming range that doesn't crush us that is)?

hokiegreg's picture

hokiegreg says:

@matvaj:

It's just 31 hands (obv only half of those villain has played oop). It's just not enough information to make such an exploitable fold (3bet bluffing us would be unbelievably +ev if we are folding KJs). I mean I'm probably not calling the absolute bottom of my normal 3bet calling range, but I'm not eliminating flatting hands completely either...cant adjust that much based on only marginally useful information (I'll fold my T8o, J9o Q8o type stuff).

The average player doesn't 3bet such a tight range that we can fold KJs. Even the average nit doesn't 3bet tight enough to fold here. When we only have a few hands of info, we still have to use population tendencies to determine the correct play. Otherwise, we are just playing a guessing game.

If 200 hands later you find that his 3betting range is literally 6% of hands...yes, that makes our 3bet calls early with KJs/QJo pretty bad. Far more often than not though, it won't work out that way...so we just have to play on generalizations and adjust gradually.

Hope that helps.

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

@nodeg No i don't really care at these stx. Getting in A3 vs J9s at 14bbs is fine, if he folds that's fine too. I'm 75bbs deep so I can't get too picky here....

nodeg's picture

nodeg says:

Ah, ok.  that makes sense.  Thanks for your time.

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

meant to say *not, I am NOT 75bbs deep lol sorry

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

@matvaju

Don't ever be embarrassed to ask a question about anything you don't understand or feel "lost" about. If anything just shoot me an email or a private message and I'll answer it privately for you. Also sometimes like in this Ax case, I just made a mistake.

kalle187's picture

kalle187 says:

One Question concerning your endgame, you often say "this is nash - i shove" and in other spots you say "this hand is to strong for shoving - i minraise" and furthermore you limp you monsters. ...isn't Nash just completly working if we shove EVERTHING thats shovable even if we only use it 12bb deep or shorter?  

I watched a lot of cog dis videos in the last days and he uses chubukov-ranges because he does not shove strong hands as well.

So I'am a little bit confused which concept I should use for a good endgame.

PHMERC's picture

PHMERC says:

it is a combination of gameflow, villain ranges/tendencies, and your hand's playability

for example at 12bbs 87o is gonna be a +ev nash shove, but it might be MORE +ev vs a particular villain to mr/fold or limp because of the tendencies and/or playability we are using

another example, K3o at 11bbs is always a shove almost vs anybody that I can think of, whereas KQ is a much better mr/call because of it's playability (unless villain has no 3b range then you should just open shove nash like you said)

 

there are a lot of things to take into account for endgame though....technically if you just shoved nash 12bbs and less it would be unexploitable but not OPTIMAL, we would ofc, prefer to go optimal if we can 

sky99en's picture

sky99en says:

The 9-3s hand vs jamni around 31.00.What is a decent regular abc gonna bluff with on riv? he knows he's gonna get looked up by K high alot, unless he's on a higher thinking level, which you frequently pointed out that they're not. doesn't make too much sense. no abc regs is gonna bluff there after taking that line.I'd rather turn my flush in to a bluff than flat there.I'm curious of what you put him on before you called?

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