Mersenneary "Special Edition" 6 Tabler

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Mersenneary 6 table NASH heads up poker chart info, wide limp raise video

Mersenneary reviews gameplay footage of a student 6-tabling super turbos on Lock Poker. He focuses on correct and incorrect applications of the NASH charts, how wide to raise limps, the pitfalls of the go-and-go play, and how to float in position when you can get a lot of information about your opponent's range on the turn.

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mrbambocha's picture

mrbambocha says:

Haha, what a fucking awesome intro!! Was totally shocked :)

11.10 You talk about calling range against 3x. Isnt Q9o, Q8s easily dominated? Would it be better to call a 3x with 65s instead? Whats your standard calling range against 3x?

 

11.50 [QJ on K84] I see your point in making a smaller CB, but aren’t you afraid of inducing if you start changing your CB size?

 

29.00 [K4, 12bb vs limp] How can it make such a big difference with K2 vs K4 if we should limp or push. Is that 1% extra in eq make such a big difference in the decision making?

 

35.10 [A3 Q62] So if we peal and villain bets small on turn, which you read as draw or weak pair, do you go on your read and try to get him of the hand by raising turn and betting river?

mersenneary's picture

mersenneary says:

I'm calling a 3x with 65s as well. I'll be a bit lazy and copy/paste something I wrote in response to a fasttrack question:

"As for your call-a-3x range - I think it's too wide. I'd fold A2o-A6o, K6o-K7o, Q7o-Q8o, J7o-J8o, T7o, 97o, 87o, 43s, T6s, J5s-J6s, Q4s-Q6s, K3s-K4s, and maybe A2s. We can quibble about my borders too of course but I definitely think your range is in general too wide first hand in a ST." (you should be able to infer what hands I would call from there!) :)

As for smaller c-bet, sure, you'll induce occasionally, but not so much that betting less doesn't have better expectation than betting more. Which I think you believe, too. You know why? Because readless, you're betting half pot for value here. If you really thought smaller bets cause induces a ton, clearly you should bet smaller readless for value!

There's a significant difference between K2 and K4. There's a reason why one's a NASH shove a full 1.5bb deeper than the other. No, it can never be that bad to do the same thing with both, but that doesn't mean one can't be on one side of the border and the other across it.

With the A3, it depends on what I've seen so far, I'll usually fold readless without turning additional equity.

emotionzor's picture

emotionzor says:

man.. that intro..

i think i fell in love

brilliant 

Do you think its better to raise limps vs players who arent going to trap and be quite fit or fold after flop with hands that would have worse expectation checking back vs raising? (by estimation, really hard to measure this)  (lowest scs, j2-j5s, t2-t5s, and even add some complete junk etc, i dont like student raising 78o becouse its a hand that is really easy to realize equity postflop and plays fine in a checking range, but the hands i listed seems more logic to raise) which can rep the high boards while still hitting hard the lower ones, those are pretty good in a 3b bluffing range for same reasons, so why wouldnt we choose them for a limping bluffing range either?

also what kind of judgement do you have to think about when deciding to check/stab most flops or steal preflop? we are usually doing this raise vs fit foldish players so isnt check/stabbing pretty much the same? (this is where it makes justifiable to raise the t2-t5s etc stuff becouse plays worse in a check-stab range than raising imo)

its something i have been really thinking about lately, seems super logic for me but i've never got the chance to get a "seal approval" :p, even though i have seen this kind of logic from very highstakes regs im not sure if its really the most optimal play

thoughts??? Hope i didnt trouble you too much :p 

about next vid i think it doesnt rly matter if hes 200tabling or 1 tabling at all since u must stop in every action, also most people prefer stars structure aswell and 1-2 tabling seems less exhausting both for you and the viewer. I think 2 tabling is really the optimal.

So my vote is to just give it a call and go for the next vid!

 

Katipo's picture

Katipo says:

Hi Mers,

You mention that openshoving 33 is best @ 20bb [32] but not @ 30bb. I remember you used to advocate openshoving 22-33 readless @ 25bb. Do you now feel this is too deep and prefer it only @ 20bb or less?

Your thoughts on the go & go are also interesting. I don't play many STs but I've come across some mega-fish on Bodog that are willing to call off ~1/3 of their stack preflop with marginal hands even 75bb deep. For instance, 1500, 10/20, they 3x an 80% range and I make it 540.

They'll call with 45s+, 78o+, J9o+ as well as all their good hands like 77, AK, AA etc. I'm torn about how to best exploit these types of players. They'll call vs my go & go strategy but not to jams. So what kinds of hands should I be using? So far, I've been doing it mostly with 77+, AT+, KQ, KJs. However, I've gotten a lot of situations where they have some random gutshot and overcards but still correctly call my flop shove.

It was a successful strategy overall but I have no clue if it's max EV. These guys are a bit too stationy postflop so there is a significant edge there too and maybe I'm pushing the preflop edge too far. It's such a strange situation because I almost never get someone that's willing to be such a station preflop and I just don't know what to do. I'm pretty much the only reg. on Bodog that tries the go & go strategy vs them. Most guys just try to play small pots postflop and win in a low-variance style. They only really 3b that large with monsters.

mersenneary's picture

mersenneary says:

Nah 25bb it's definitely still better to openjam. 30bb is deep enough that raise/fold is usually best.

AT is a good example of a typically hand to go-and-go with - Your opponent is actually quite profitable calling in position with a fairly wide range against that particular holding, and then deciding which flops to play for all the chips on and which flops not to, while you commit to playing for 100% of the chips 100% of the time. Sure, you'll get your opponent to make some incorrect decisions, but not super often with a hand like AT. It of course depends on your sizing pre and how much you're leaving on the flop.

One thing you can do if they keep trying to chase the 45s stuff and you don't want to jam for that reason is to make the raise leave better than a 1-1 ratio left (putting most of the money in pre). That makes those loose calls bad for sure and doesn't set up that situation on the flop where they get to make the decision for a large amount of chips.

mersenneary's picture

mersenneary says:

As for raising limps - if your opponent has a weak limping range you can raise limps with whatever, again like 3bet bluffing since you might not do it with 100% it can make more sense to do it with T4o than 52o if you're going to pick some amount of the time. I disagree with you that J2s is a better hand to raise a limp with than 78o - yes, 78o plays better postflop, but that's true after your raise gets called, too. The same reason why we don't raise A4o when our opponent limps in is why those trashier hands with low cards aren't as good to raise either.

emotionzor's picture

emotionzor says:

i meant j2s is better to raise a limp in terms of comparing EV of checking back to EV of raising vs an opponent who is giving you enough fold equity, id rather pick to raise the hand that has worse expectation from checking back, and check back with the hand that plays well postflop. (in case we had to choose one)

thecupshalffull's picture

thecupshalffull says:

Great job on the video Mers!  I think I'm going to drop down to 4 tabling for a while and work on not auto piloting so much :] I'll post some specific hand questions tomorrow and include my reads on the villans involved.

outs_on_the_moon's picture

outs_on_the_moon says:

Hey M.

Love this format. Looking forward to seeing you comment on some more multitabling live play.

Just wanted to leave some technical feedback though: I have a 24" widescreen and it doable viewing the vid although its kinda difficult sometimes to see the betsizes and actually i'm more often totally miss bet and potsizes. I'd just image that people with laptops and small screens really hav a hard time viewing this video bet/potsizes wise.

Cheers

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