JackTheShipper Hyper Turbo Series 2 - $30 Level

October 12, 2011 - 03:21

Continuing his hyper turbo heads up series, JackTheShipper takes aim at the $30 buyin level. He discusses playing draws, situations to lead the turn after calling the flop, playing Ax hands below 17bbs and limping around the 12bb effective stack area.
(9 votes)

FreakOfNature says:
Good vid. I got alot from it - thx
1:40 (which you also discuss a bit more at end of video) - J3cc oop you call the guys overbet on 9K6scc, hit 4c on the turn and lead 110 into 160.
I just wanted to talk about this a bit more as I don't think it's a line I ever take readless so just wondering if my thinking is wrong. I would probably ck here, just because in my (short) experience an overbet is never usually followed up by a ck and people tend to compound mistakes by making more and if he does ck behind with a K then we may still get some value on riv if it's a non club (assuming he doesnt hold a club). I just think cking lets him spew more if thats what he was doing otf and also know there might be some hands he wants to semi-bluff with.
Or if I do lead here I would probably bet much smaller to induce rather than bet so big as I think we have basically just turned out hand face up from calling an overbet then leading so large.
5:30 - Also somethiing I don't really do too much but mainly because I haven't thought about too much and normally just am in Jam/fold mode unless villain is very passive.
You decide to flat with 8ish bb's oop w J10o and ck/f a 8 high flop. You mention that it's more a game flow thing. Did you think he may of been stronger so you wanted to hit a piece before getiing it in? and ck/f anything else? What would you of done if the board comes AQ10r? Or maybe you flatted for another reason?
Just interested to hear the thoughts of a winning player when they are slightly different to my own.
Thanks
Marzipannase says:
What openjamming chart do you use? At around the beginning of the video you have A3o and you said you can openjam this for up to 17BB. I cant find these number in Nash or Chubakov.
Marzipannase
Valuelol says:
If you look at the nash chart, you will see that you could openshove A3o 20bb +
i think even chubukchov would let you shove
emotionzor says:
i think he was meaning by "up to 17bb deep" that its better to open jam than minraise/folding-calling since a3 plays pretty awful pstflop and most money comes from fold equity.
Marzipannase says:
Yeah but how does he come up with the "up to 17BB" with A3o?
Marzipannase
outs_on_the_moon says:
Hey JTS; First of all, I'm excited and looking forward to see more vids by you & keep up the interaction with your viewers.
As to your question on giving feedback to your videos; there where a couple of hands you decided to look back after you played the tournament, but where you basically didn't add to much more information. The idea to maybe after a tournament to review some interesting hands is a nice idea, but now you reviewed some hands that really weren't interesting enough to hear you talk about for a second time (for a non-beginner) imo, and only broke the flow of the video. So i suggest you pick your hands that you want to talk more in depth after the match more carefully..
As to the hands;
17:45 The A3o hand. You decided to call, because of that T7o hand you saw earlier....
Yes without seeing the match I'd say easy call; but in the video, my direct reaction (before you made the call!) was "o no, please please don't call here.". For me there was something about the game-flow that triggered me that he would not be shoving light here a 2nd time... and you'd be getting it in dominated or slightly ahead. Maybe a bit of a vague comment, but i personally think being sharp on game-flow and timing can be very valueable and for me i think it improves my winrate significantly (ofc. not so easy to prove)
17:09
I'm curious about that K2s hand that u decided to fold even though you got 1:3 on a call at the first blind level. I was wandering, since villain look pretty agro preflop and seemed like he was opening a lot... If your not calling hands like K2s with 22bb behind, arent you getting run over then by an agro preflop opener?
I'm curious here: how should i determine my preflop calling range here at this blindlevel and stackdepth and against different player types. Do you have any mathematical consideration? Or what is it exactly that makes k2s a fold here for you, cause my initial reaction was call
25:00 and early
I really don't like that play with your j3s hand; imo you simply dont have the implied odds to justify calling
My thoughts: you called t60 basically in the hope you'd have enough implied odds, but you're only have max, 9 outs (if he doesnt hold one in his hand) which only gives you a flush on the turn in around 18% of the time. So to break even on that call you should win 100/18% * 60 chip is about 333 chips on average, meaning with 100t in the pot villain needs to be putting another 233 chips in the pot on average, meaning you have to stack him quite a lot of the time here when you hit [to make up for the times he's not putting anymore chips or just 1 bet in when you hit oyur flush...] . And i think that is hardly do-able;
As the way you played the hand i think as played you should not be betting turn here cause then your perceived range on your flopdonk looks to me like Kx+ and flushes, and he will fold all his 9x and blufs where he might have continued and rep the flush himself. Getting 2 streets of value from anything less then a strong Kx is also questionable.
I think the best way to get value is to checkt turn, hoping he keeps bluffing or v-bets his Kx+ (he really cant be putting you on a flush every time) and if he checks turn behind i'll probably make a small bet looking like a blocking bet hoping he either still get a call with his weak pairs or spazzes out and tries to blufraise you (he had agro tendencies).
Thus if you combine mathematics with hand-mechanics to me it seems like its virtually impossible to make a +eV call here on the flop....
ps. And last you might als have some reversed implied odds when a J comes on the turn
mrbambocha says:
05.50 [JT, 9BB, OOP] Why do you flat? Cant see that you have enough of implied odds and once villain is aggro I like it even less. Would be an easier call if villain was passive I think. And since you know he is aggro how bad would it be to get it in on that 854 board?
07.30 [K6 on J32.5] How would it be to cr T and bet river if he calls since that bet seems so weak and we have outs if called with a strangely played Jx.
10.05 [96 on 763dd] I have a difficult time playing MP on these wet boards vs a CR readless. I don’t know how commited I am if I call and if I call its an easy board for him to CB. Its much easier for him to 2barel that board compared to KT3dd board. Would you call a CR to 100/120? Whats your thoughtprocess with MP/BP readless facing a cr?
11.40 [95 on 965cc] Why not CB bigger then half pot on this wet board? To obvious? Whats your range for calling his check/shove on this flop?
24.15 I don’t know how you can continue playing this player that runs so good vs you. Vs some players it just seems like impossible to win a hand against so I just quit them. Is it wrong by me?
Request: Could you do a video where you 4-table. I would like to see how you analyze your oponents and what things you focus on / leave out when multitableing.
JackTheShipper says:
@FoN1.40; See further! 5.30;I think my flat is a mistake tbh, and id prefer to see a jam.Its prolly closer then i make it sound by the above sentence, but i think jamming is superior in hindsight. @Marzipannase;Im using mainly nash for below 8bbs but to answer your question how i come up with this up to 17bbs stat well fairly simple, i asked some players who played a ton of hands and have an incredible solid sample of openjamming Ax at 17bb and belowand they all concluded over all stakes pretty much, that openjamming Ax up to 17 will be profitable, mainly from foldequity because it appears that you seem to breakeven when u get called.@O_o_t_m;r videos; there where a couple of hands you decided to look back after you played the tournament, but where you basically didn't add to much more information.Hey thank you for ur input, i see that u replied a similair thing to the new video that is up, truth is the videos are pre-recorded, as in, i have currently made 3 videos more then this one alreadybut for the ones after that i will definitely keep it in mind, as most of you know, im new to vid making and all feedback and criticism as long as its constructive is GREATLY appreciated.17.45Well, this might be a bit results oriented on your behalf i believe. I dont mean this offensive or anything, its just purely equity based, all i know off of villain is he jammed light vs minraise earlier at about equal stacksizes. I have 0 proof that he now would suddenly balance his range or that he is intelligent enough to stop and think;hey i just did this with a shitty hand, now ill do it with a good hand, obv after seeing his AT, it changes a little bit. 17.09I really think both are fine, its just i think K2s plays horrible postflop OOP when u flat it, so if he is opening wide id rather include it in my 3bet bluffing range then in my oop flatting range.25.00;You are very right sir, I undeniably made a mistake. And agree with your evaluation for the major part of the time. As a default would you raise the flop here? Its kinda an icky spot we are fairly readless and early on in the game iirc, and we have no clue what his 60 bet means. But in retrospect it seems as if raising is definately best, and as played, c turn and if he checks behind lead river small @Mrbambocha;-Haha i put it off recently actually ;) But i had it on for ages, altho i never really showed, its just not smart to do the majority of the time. -Uhmmm this is very villain dependant, hard to say in general, but as a rule of thumb, id prolly jam everything in there that im calling a jam with, that way im surely not getting exploited.Unless i have VERY specific reads.-Not really, Ax (especially the weaker kickers) same for 22-33, dont have THAT great of an expectation, if we assume that short once he 3bets hes never folding.What do we really achieve if we mr 22 , get 3bet, jam it in, and get called by 86s? id rather openshove and get a fold.For what its worth tho 44-66 im always minraise calling, almost NEVER am i openjamming this, because at this point with A2 A3 A4 K2 K3 K4 i think it starts to matter. 22-33 i dont mind an openjam for 22 25bbs same goes for 33.05.50 Prolly not that bad to get it in there, might even be better then folding the more i think about it tbh. (see above) 07.30Its hard to say because we dont have any real reads on what his 20bets means, but to be honest, i dislike it because SO OFTENin my experience vs 'weaker lower stake players' they bet 20 they bet 20 again, u make it 100 and they call bottom pair and u just feel like an idiotits like, the guys that bet this 20 are not really gonna fold that much even if u raise it up big + sometimes u get induced so i think this is a spot where its easy to spewand get called by a donkey because he is a donkey (not because he is trying to induce you) so i kinda try and stear clear from it :)10.05 Good question, very interesting!i think against a checkraise here im just giving up, alot of draws will have great equity with 1/2 overs to my pair to go with their drawand if he has some top pairs into that, it really seems bad to continue to be honest.even if he doesnt jam but just checkraises, and i flat im gonna hate life on the turn and make a ton of incorrect decisions. IF we are less deep, and i have good reads/an aggro dynamic, i wouldnt mind getting it in with 2nd pair good kicker on wet boards the majority of the time. 11.40I feel silly admitting thisbut you saw the network status pop up right? i just panicked i was gonna insta check so i quickly saw 2p and clicked half as soon as i could before i timed out :Pas for my range, prolly about 80% of the hands im cbetting im calling a jam with on that board. 24.15I actually cant say oh it is superwrong or superright, but i think both have it merits, for what its worth, i think i should do it more often! some people just have 15 mins where they run like god and then they keep playing you, because they keep hanging on to that 15 mins where they "crushed you"but thats obviously a rare event, and quitting godmoders doesnt seem like a bad idea.I just dont decline many people really, unless i have to go , or sat at same time with a person im friendly with."Request: Could you do a video where you 4-table. I would like to see how you analyze your oponents and what things you focus on / leave out when multitableing."yes, after this series finishes, that sounds cool
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mrbambocha says:
Thanks again for you're answer. Got a lot of good stuff out of it. Looking toward too the rest of the series.