There was as you said a lot of things going on in this video and got a little rushed. But it brought up interesting spots and useful information. For example stabbing multiple streets on dry boards. You explained that well. Here`s some questions:
1. The Kc Qd hand early on in the video was interesting. You C/R the villains potsize donk on 9s 2s Jc flop and hope to get a shove to call. You don`t want to overbetshove so that the worse draws wouldn`t fold. You also feel that you are flipping against a lot of his range. But are you not a 60/40 (any J) dog against a lot also? Or even worse against two pair or KJ, QJ, AJ etc.? Feels like a difficult spot to me. Or is this just standard?
2. You cbet w 77 on JJ8r flop. Would you always cbet this against all opponents?
3. With Ac 3c you flat villains donk on Ah Qh 4s. Turn is 5h and villain bets again and you say that you will just call down because a lot of villains will bluff of in donked pots. Would you call a shove on a blanc river here?
4. In the first matches you opened 2,5x on the other table and 3x on the other. Why?
5. You raised limps in the beginning of matches w K8s and QTo type of hands. Why?
6. You have 6d 8d and call a donk on 7s 6c 2d flop, turn is 7d and goes C/C,river brings 3d and villain checks and you value bet big. Why not bet smaller to get calls from a 6 or any pair, maybe Ax? Or is this just missing value? It seemed obvious that the villain did not have a 7 or straight.
Ok. Got a little carried away.
Hope that you can answer to some of my questions? ;)
1) i'm 60/40 vs a lot of hands, but i also dominate a couple draws T8/QT (both are hands that i think shove over a cr pretty often..esp qt). i also give him chance to think he has fold equity and 3bet shove air over my raise to 400. i also get value by just stealing his 120 on the flop a lot of the time, as opposed to flatting/missing the turn/having to fold to a decent-sized turn lead. i just dont think there is a more +ev way to play this hand without specific reads that he is either: a) very strong or b) will shut down on the turn a ton and i can steal
2) i cbet a pretty wide range. i like to cbet htis flop bc: a) he misses this flop a lot and b) if he c/c the flop it's the kind of board that i feel very comfortable handreading on based on how he responds to turn/river cards
3) ya i was calling turn to call a river shove. i don't believe donkbet/lead/lead line generally.
4) my preflop raise sizing decreases as effective stacks decrease. i go over this in a ton of my vids.
5) bc most peoples limping ranges are pretty weak and these hands hit the flop well. they are both kind of the bottom of my unsuited raising range over a limp..i also like to raise suited connectors. it's very easy to rep JXX-AXX flops in l/c pots bc it's very believable that our range hits these kinds of flops...and most peoples limp/calling ranges dont as often and they will give us a lot of respect.
Your tips about preflop raise sizing have helped me a lot. In this video though I thought that the stacksizes were pretty much equal on both tables and thats why I was wondering about the difference in your raisesizes. Maybe I remember that incorrectly, I´m not sure.
Anyway, that KQo hand has puzzled me a lot. I agree that it´s not good to flat that donkbet but but but... I would hate to call a shove and see that I´m dominated and lose the match on that hand. There was still plenty of room to play. Folding seems so weak too though. Do you think that this really is the optimal way of playing this situation without reads against an unknown opponent whos donkbetrange is therefore also disguised? Well, you would of course get infomation about it this way also. Hmmm, I have to go and play a ton now and try to find a smilar spot. Confused, I must be too nitty and careful.
I must also try to raise limps more frequently maybe. I many times just check back K8s and QTo and small aces. I do however sometimes raise with those suited connectors. Maybe this is a little dependant on the villain of course but also dependant on the heros natural way of playing.
And that calldown with A3 would also be difficult for me. Ok, I must be too results orientated...
A more general question: what are the things to consider when you dicide to go for thin value on the river? The biggest risk seems to be that villain will (bluff-)-raise our smallish v-bet. So while many villains at lower stakes most likely won't be capable of doing that, a strong opponent will often raise you in that spot. What would be your adjustments? Will you bet less often, or larger or call lighter?
@koolimato: There isn't a better way to play this situation readless. It ranges from a slightly -ev situation vs some to an insanely +ev move versus most. I'll base a play on generalizations like this without reads some.
@looser vogel: i feel i have a pretty good idea of what my opponents are capable of and i think it's kind of easy to tell if they are the type to spaz out and raise a small river bet. it's great against so many players, but ur right u do have to be careful of who you use it agains.
the main things i consider when going for thin value on the river are: 1) what do i think villain's range is 2) what type of hands does villain think i have given plays on previous streets and changes in board texture and 3) what size will accumulate the most value long term (that doesnt mean what size will get called the most often...we would obv rather get 150 called 30 times out of 100 than to get 45 called 60 times or something)
Some great situations and explanations. I recently watched your videos 1 & 3, after watching 4 some time ago. I don't know whether it's exclusively the quality of situations that arise, but your commentary seems to get suddenly better between video 3 & 4. Anyway, I've seen videos 16 & 24 and was very happy with those, too, so I decided to start watching some of your older videos now.
One question:
@0:00 55. You say you like to minraise you small pocket pairs when you are 40-45bb deep. Does this apply later during the match or are speaking about this one particular hand, being the first of the match? I mean...if you are 3xing to start the match and you then pick up 55 during the 15th hand of the match, will you still be minraising?
In other words, do you feel Villains are mostly not observant enough to pick up the variance in your bet size? Or do you think about this?
hokiegreg says:
Go.
koolimato says:
There was as you said a lot of things going on in this video and got a little rushed. But it brought up interesting spots and useful information. For example stabbing multiple streets on dry boards. You explained that well. Here`s some questions:
1. The Kc Qd hand early on in the video was interesting. You C/R the villains potsize donk on 9s 2s Jc flop and hope to get a shove to call. You don`t want to overbetshove so that the worse draws wouldn`t fold. You also feel that you are flipping against a lot of his range. But are you not a 60/40 (any J) dog against a lot also? Or even worse against two pair or KJ, QJ, AJ etc.? Feels like a difficult spot to me. Or is this just standard?
2. You cbet w 77 on JJ8r flop. Would you always cbet this against all opponents?
3. With Ac 3c you flat villains donk on Ah Qh 4s. Turn is 5h and villain bets again and you say that you will just call down because a lot of villains will bluff of in donked pots. Would you call a shove on a blanc river here?
4. In the first matches you opened 2,5x on the other table and 3x on the other. Why?
5. You raised limps in the beginning of matches w K8s and QTo type of hands. Why?
6. You have 6d 8d and call a donk on 7s 6c 2d flop, turn is 7d and goes C/C,river brings 3d and villain checks and you value bet big. Why not bet smaller to get calls from a 6 or any pair, maybe Ax? Or is this just missing value? It seemed obvious that the villain did not have a 7 or straight.
Ok. Got a little carried away.
Hope that you can answer to some of my questions? ;)
hokiegreg says:
nice!
1) i'm 60/40 vs a lot of hands, but i also dominate a couple draws T8/QT (both are hands that i think shove over a cr pretty often..esp qt). i also give him chance to think he has fold equity and 3bet shove air over my raise to 400. i also get value by just stealing his 120 on the flop a lot of the time, as opposed to flatting/missing the turn/having to fold to a decent-sized turn lead. i just dont think there is a more +ev way to play this hand without specific reads that he is either: a) very strong or b) will shut down on the turn a ton and i can steal
2) i cbet a pretty wide range. i like to cbet htis flop bc: a) he misses this flop a lot and b) if he c/c the flop it's the kind of board that i feel very comfortable handreading on based on how he responds to turn/river cards
3) ya i was calling turn to call a river shove. i don't believe donkbet/lead/lead line generally.
4) my preflop raise sizing decreases as effective stacks decrease. i go over this in a ton of my vids.
5) bc most peoples limping ranges are pretty weak and these hands hit the flop well. they are both kind of the bottom of my unsuited raising range over a limp..i also like to raise suited connectors. it's very easy to rep JXX-AXX flops in l/c pots bc it's very believable that our range hits these kinds of flops...and most peoples limp/calling ranges dont as often and they will give us a lot of respect.
6) ya i prob should've vbet smaller. good call.
hope this helps.
koolimato says:
Your tips about preflop raise sizing have helped me a lot. In this video though I thought that the stacksizes were pretty much equal on both tables and thats why I was wondering about the difference in your raisesizes. Maybe I remember that incorrectly, I´m not sure.
Anyway, that KQo hand has puzzled me a lot. I agree that it´s not good to flat that donkbet but but but... I would hate to call a shove and see that I´m dominated and lose the match on that hand. There was still plenty of room to play. Folding seems so weak too though. Do you think that this really is the optimal way of playing this situation without reads against an unknown opponent whos donkbetrange is therefore also disguised? Well, you would of course get infomation about it this way also. Hmmm, I have to go and play a ton now and try to find a smilar spot. Confused, I must be too nitty and careful.
I must also try to raise limps more frequently maybe. I many times just check back K8s and QTo and small aces. I do however sometimes raise with those suited connectors. Maybe this is a little dependant on the villain of course but also dependant on the heros natural way of playing.
And that calldown with A3 would also be difficult for me. Ok, I must be too results orientated...
Looser Vogel says:
A more general question: what are the things to consider when you dicide to go for thin value on the river? The biggest risk seems to be that villain will (bluff-)-raise our smallish v-bet. So while many villains at lower stakes most likely won't be capable of doing that, a strong opponent will often raise you in that spot. What would be your adjustments? Will you bet less often, or larger or call lighter?
Thanx!
Martin
hokiegreg says:
@koolimato: There isn't a better way to play this situation readless. It ranges from a slightly -ev situation vs some to an insanely +ev move versus most. I'll base a play on generalizations like this without reads some.
hokiegreg says:
@looser vogel: i feel i have a pretty good idea of what my opponents are capable of and i think it's kind of easy to tell if they are the type to spaz out and raise a small river bet. it's great against so many players, but ur right u do have to be careful of who you use it agains.
the main things i consider when going for thin value on the river are: 1) what do i think villain's range is 2) what type of hands does villain think i have given plays on previous streets and changes in board texture and 3) what size will accumulate the most value long term (that doesnt mean what size will get called the most often...we would obv rather get 150 called 30 times out of 100 than to get 45 called 60 times or something)
qattack says:
I rated this video 5 Stars.
Some great situations and explanations. I recently watched your videos 1 & 3, after watching 4 some time ago. I don't know whether it's exclusively the quality of situations that arise, but your commentary seems to get suddenly better between video 3 & 4. Anyway, I've seen videos 16 & 24 and was very happy with those, too, so I decided to start watching some of your older videos now.
One question:
@0:00 55. You say you like to minraise you small pocket pairs when you are 40-45bb deep. Does this apply later during the match or are speaking about this one particular hand, being the first of the match? I mean...if you are 3xing to start the match and you then pick up 55 during the 15th hand of the match, will you still be minraising?
In other words, do you feel Villains are mostly not observant enough to pick up the variance in your bet size? Or do you think about this?