Fydor_8: Slow-Playing A Made Hand

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fydor_8's picture
fydor_8
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This video from Fydor_8 discusses how and why to slow-play a made hand on the flop. Fydor_8 reviews a hand where he flops the nuts, and talks about how to keep his opponent betting into him through smooth calling.

Heatnation6's picture
Heatnation6
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is this for real?

is this for real?

cdon3822's picture
cdon3822
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Bit harsh but got me thinking ...

Hero gets dealt TT & flops trips or better about 0.01% of the time vs a 20-50% villain calling range. 

If we generalise it a bit more to being dealt PP we wouldn't open jam 'AA-66' then it happens about 0.15% of the time. 

When you then factor it down for: 

- getting an opponent who is willing to donk & barrel off (unusual imo); &

- the EV differential between how this would play out if you and your opponent's positions were reversed;

 

Then the time spent watching this video to learn how to slow play here is almost certainly -EV relative to any reasonable value you put on your time. 

It probably didn't merit an 11min video to explain the concept:

"Vs a non-thinking aggressive opponent slow playing can yield value when you have a lock on the board"

 

That said, you could arguably find analogous spots...

AND TO BE FAIR => IT WAS FREE!

 

I obviously don't strictly apply that logic anyway because:

- I watched the video; &

- I spent time estimating it's importance (as measured by its potential for EV differential multiplied by the frequency with which it occurs)

 

Working propokertools PQL
Case 1: TT specifically

select
count (inrange(hero,'TT') and inrange(villain,'20%-50%') and minflophandcategory(hero,floptrips)) as frequency
from
game = 'holdem',
hero = '**',
villain = '**'

Case 2: AA-66 specifically

select
count (inrange(hero,'AA-66') and inrange(villain,'20%-50%') and minflophandcategory(hero,floptrips)) as frequency
from
game = 'holdem',
hero = '**',
villain = '**'

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joshuanovoselic
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 I was always wondering if

laugh I was always wondering if there s gonna be someone with floppin Royal ,SF or quads and make a strategy video of that! Been waiting for years! You re my hero!!!!!!laugh...As played, I think we should go all in on  the flop and get the value from JJJTT.wink Not quite sure about the numbers, but think we win most of the time.laugh

Dipl.Komp.'s picture
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i think you can argue for

i think you can argue for slowplaying on a TT2r board, representing A high or K high and hoping for villain to catch up. slowplaying on TTJ i think is pretty bad. villain has plenty of jacks, gutshots, openenders, additionally A high and maybe K high will also call here, also hands like Q4s with a BDFD will peel. you´ll get called by so many hands here, against which you will lose one street of value if you check the flop. plenty of draws will call you twice here, but if you check the flop, they will only donate one bet.

 

then: what card are you hoping for villain to catch on the turn to become your customer?

- if he makes a straight, he surely would have called a flop bet, if not raised it.

- if he hits an overcard, he either has Ax, which he would have called a flop bet with, or K high or Q high, which very often come with a gut shot or open ender, that also call or raise a flop bet. also if he hits an overcard, he often will go broke, but only if you bet the flop.

- if he hits an undercard, like a 5, all you´ll ever get is one street of value, except he makes a running full house. but since that hardly ever happens, that´s not an argument for checking back the flop

- if he hits a backdoor flushdraw, he will call a bet and he will go broke if he makes his flush. but a running flush also hardly ever happens, besides he usually will call the flop with a BDFD that goes along with an A, K, Q, GS or OESD anyway. do you really think we lose value in the long run if we let 6d4d draw to pick up a bad FD?

 

so, pretty much the only value we lose by betting the flop is from hands like 95o that catch a 5 on the turn and may call one bet. a thinking opponent who perceives you as a solid player, will usually refrain from probing the turn, unless he has a jack or a draw, with which he will call or raise the flop anyway.

vs a thinking opponent, if you check back such a board, all alarm bells should go off. you´re being "transparently tricky" in this spot. if you flop the stones you hardly ever get more than one street of value, no matter how you play. you extracted max value here, because villain is a spewtard, not because of a brilliant strategy.

 

cheers

s.