Cog Dissonance Super Turbo Heads Up SNG Guide

December 22, 2010 - 23:32

Cog Dissonance gives members a guide to playing super turbo heads up sngs on Full Tilt Poker. He illustrates concepts with a hand replayer between slides.
(12 votes)

System says:
That's what I have been waiting for!
cog dissonance says:
By the time I finish it everyone that sees it should have pretty solid basics. Hopefully not too many people will watch it :D
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System says:
Hopefully :), my endgame isn't very good so this is gold for me, will do review probably.
jamjam747 says:
Great vid Cog...a lot of info....looking forward to part 2
reallymonkeyish says:
A couple of the things against the loose aggressive at the end seem kinda bad.
@19:10 you say to fold K2s for 13BBs, but jamming it there is slightly +EV, and can become very +EV if he calls or folds too wide. Same with the A3o hand that you say to raise/fold for 16BBs - against a loose aggressive I'd rather jam or raise/call. Raise/fold seems pretty bad if we don't know yet what his jamming range is.
cog dissonance says:
Well you can play a really nash style if it suits you. For example Nash says you can shove K3 suited at 19bbs. I personally think that if you jam for too many bb's you give up any post-flop edge you may have. I went through a pretty aggressive end-game phase, and the results just weren't as good.
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dickrivers says:
K3s is an open shove at 14bb according to sklansky chubukov, if you dont want to limp it or min raise it pushing it still seems like a better option than folding
cog dissonance says:
I think you guys are missing the point ;)
Yes you can shove at X bb's according to Nash/Chubukov.
However being "unexploitable" is not the way to make good money at these.
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Maxx4x4 says:
Im agree with cog! If u look at nash u can push that sort of hands like QT at 20bb's deep. But let think about it...if u have 640 chips and ur opponent 360 and the blinds r 10/20 for example, did u need to push? U can do it but if he calls like KQ and double up then u will be in a trouble and need to find the hand to push and hope that he calls on worse....but u can wait a little bit or use methods that cog introduce and won....i think that the idea)
dickrivers says:
I m not talking about beeing unexploitable and i m still not talking about nash i m talking about sklansky chubukov, i m saying that if you dont want to minraise or limp , you only have 2 options fold or shove, if the chart tell you a shove is ev+ you are burning money by folding since it would be ev+ for you to push even if your opponnent knew your hand and since he doesnt that s massively ev+ and in many case your opponent calling range will be much tighter than it should be with your pushing range so in theory you should even push wider and still be ev+ so passing on that kind of spot makes no sense to me.
RyPac13 says:
K2s is 13.35 bbs on Chubokov, no?
I don't follow Chubokov too closely personally, I think you're getting into miniscule edges with a lot of the borderline spots (and not the usual "edges are small at 12bb or less" talk), but you may be technically correct dick. I believe Chubokov actually does apply separate from a shove or fold strategy, meaning you can open shove K2s up to at least 13.3 bbs and it will be a better single action (as far as profit goes in that one hand) than open folding, assuming 0 edge.
dickrivers says:
it s a shove at 13.35bbs according to http://www2.decf.berkeley.edu/~chubukov/rankings.html, if you play reg speed or turbo you wont see that situation that often, but in superturbo that will be really frequent so that might be a leak instead of anecdotal in slower structures
cog dissonance says:
Yes I agree according to Chubukov it is a shove. Just as QJs is a shove at 20bb's according to Nash. What I'm trying to suggest is that even though the charts say you can shove them, it still isn't a great idea to do so. You're taking a very small or edge, or perhaps making a breakeven play, when you need a larger edge to be profitable.
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mersenneary says:
I'll chime in and talk about what I like about what you're both saying :)
I like that Cog is talking about doing better than the charts - this is an approach I agree with completely, and something that has served him really well in STs. That impulse of not just doing something because a chart says so and trying to find better solutions is something that really rewards good thinking players like Cog.
I also like that the commenter (sorry can't read name, I'm already in reply mode), is thinking critically about the advice and trying to find a better solution to Cog's better solution :). In this case, while I agree with Cog that openshoving K2s at these stacks is not always best, I also agree with the commenter than folding it is something we should be doing very rarely, given that it is guaranteed to have worse expectation than openshoving, and quite likely to have worse expectation than limping or openshoving. In my database limping, openshoving, and minraising have demonstrated significantly better results than what we get from folding - more than the small/breakeven edge that Cog suggests. That said, I have not seen the video, or know anything about our opponent, and there's always a counter argument to be made that based on our opponent tendencies we can do something unconventional.
One thing I like about this site is that all of us coaches don't see poker the same way - we disagree and have different perspectives about different common situations. This helps me learn more about what the key debates are and how to THINK about poker, which helps me more than anything (and I would expect that's felt by the userbase too, considering I feel like I'm always learning things so you guys probably do too). From watching different people you learn to agree and disagree with confidence and model your own game, recognizing that all of us coaches are doing some things wrong in addition to all of the things we're doing really well.
Anyway, didn't mean to write a novel :)
mjw006 says:
Hey Cog, I'm not actually finished watching the vid yet because I got to 13-19BB and was kinda confusde a little.
Your talking about playing your button vs tight-passives and that limping and stabbing a hand like T2o will be best. Do you think against this type of opponent you are just better off minraising these total junk hands? When our opponent has a 100% range (ignoring whatever blockers we have to a couple of combos), yet they are going to be folding say 70% of that preflop (as a TP), then I don't see how limping and stabbing is more +ev than MR pre. We are giving them an opportunity to hit the flop somewhere between 25-40% of the time (depending what you consider hitting the flop).
I'm not arguing that it is -ev because I think you are automatically going to be +ev vs this opponent type unless you fold. But I can't really see any possible way that limping a junk hand like T2o will be more +ev than just minraising it preflop?
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pal says:
Hi,great video as usual! However, i have some questions concerning playing against a LAG from the SB.You wrote at the beginning that against LAGs we should consider "a limping style and narrow our raising range". @7:58 you start presenting some example hands against a LAG. The first one is QTo. You says we should minraise it and fold to a 3bet. Can you please explain why it is better to minraise it than limp/call a raise a against a LAG in STs? I guess if we raise QTo, we raise all other broadway cards too...If this is the case, can u tell me what constitutes our limping range @ 20-25BB?
cog dissonance says:
Well most of the problem is raise size. You don't really want to call a 3x or 4x raise, you'd rather see a flop for a min raise. There aren't many hands I'd like to limp-call with, so the limping range should be mostly a limp-folding range consisting of weaker but playable hands. It really depends on how often the LAG is attacking limps and raises and you have to change your strategy depending on that.
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NoHeDidnt says:
Great content! But where are the other parts? Regarding your ST series I only can find the live plays.