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pbogz1114's picture
Basic 25bb Heads Up Poker Strategy

Pbogz lays out his basic 25bb gameplan in a presentation style video. You can view part 1 (Basic Preflop Strategy) and part 2 (Basic Postflop Strategy) of this four part series. Paul also coaches turbo speed players.

MyPokerTravel's picture
3B calling range

Hi Pbogz,
Nice vid. I very liked. I'm  beginer turbo player and usually I have big trouble with my engame. Your video was very clear and helpful for me. Some of those concept I was already applied before nevertheless your presentation  has clarify the things for  me. Could you tell me how you manage for adjustment of 3B calling range when villain 3B wide? I know that exist the tools as ICM which help for determine profitable calling range vs x%of 3B.. but since you play for the few first time with opponent you do not have sample size for him. Do you think that we can adjust vs general profil of population?  The second thing is the scale which we suppose to apply. For sure we will not looking for calling exactly specified hands vs exactly specified 3Bshove range. Simply because it's to much info to memorise when we are beginer... or not? Sould we do it? I think the good solution is to scale the calling range vs 3Bshove >30%; 15-30%; <15%. What do you think, it can work good for long term? Next topic is when villain 3B non shove above 15bb. What we do? I do not think in any case it's correct to call at tis point of game. For the end.. what do you think about game under 10bb, personally under 10bb I play pure Nash (except few very wrong player which fold to minirasie even under 10bb or go allin each single hand on limp, then I can ilmp big paire). Do you think the Nash under 10bb which is optimal strategy? I play it because by my understanding I cannot be lose with it on long therm. Under 10bb i do not looking for win the chips, I am looking only for not to lose. After your opinion is it correct way of seeing things?  Or do you think that under 10bb we can apply some strategy which can give us the profit? 
Thanks&Regards
Pawel
P.S sorry for  my English :)

pbogz1114's picture
Hey Pawel,  Glad to see you

Hey Pawel,
 Glad to see you enjoyed the video
1) When playing vs a villain that  has a wide 3betting range, I think it is best to go off population tendencies ( with no notes). For example, If I see somebody 3betting me more than 20% of the time I'm assuming they are mixing in some bluffs. This allows me to now call a little wider in position ( q9, j9, 108s)  Not only can I call wider, but against an opponent that is 3betting very wide, 4 bet shoving (low Ax) at deeper stack depths becomes very profitable. 
2) ICM I think is a great tool and your goal as a poker player should be have a good idea on all types of ranges. You might not be able to remember it all, but overtime you will and It will give you an edge VS many opponents. ( You can even make an excel spread sheet of ranges based on 3bet% or 3bet shove%. This way you can always have it nearby during any session)
 
3) Most people stop 3betting at 15BB late in a game, but I still like doing it once it a while because it can look VERY strong to most players. Flatting is usually very bad unless you have reasons to (ex: You have KK) At 10BB I don't mind you playing it safe and using the Nash chart, but I think there is a lot of room for strategy at those 8-12BB mark in heads up poker, based on the type of player you are against. Under 8BB is ideal for me!

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3onthego's picture
How about open shoving to

How about open shoving to protect vs 3bet shover?

pbogz1114's picture
3onthego, Open shoving does

3onthego,
Open shoving does protect our hand from 3bet shoving, but it depends on what the effective stacks are at that moment. Usually vs an aggressive player like that I would be shoving hands like K5s all in at 8-12 BB just because its the best EV play. If I was at 15BB I wouldn't shove because were actually making life easier for our opponent by doing that. I think limping or min folding is still the best play at 13+BB

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3onthego's picture
I'm not sure life is going to

I'm not sure life is going to be very easy for him if you start open shoving at 25bb. If you mix it up with min raise inducing with your best hands, limping with you weak suited connectors which play well post flop, and folding the junky rest then, until he has worked out you are min raise inducing (by which time it is hopefully too late because he did so by 3bet shoving), he must assume the preflop shove this deep reflects the top of your range.
Furthermore, if your main reaction to his 3bet shoving is by narrowing your preflop min raise range rather than open shoving then you are doing exactly what he wants. You are reducing the frequency with which you are stealing his big blind. Which, imo, is making his life easier.

pbogz1114's picture
I think that opening your

I think that opening your 3bet calling ranges or tightening up your opening ranges is a better play than open shoving hands 16+ BB's deep. between 8-15 BB deep you could make a cause, but any bigger Isn't good in my mind!

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pbogz1114's picture
I think that opening your

I think that opening your 3bet calling ranges or tightening up your opening ranges is a better play than open shoving hands 16+ BB's deep. between 8-15 BB deep you could make a cause, but any bigger Isn't good in my mind!

View my coaching page.

3onthego's picture
But that's an instinct isn't

But that's an instinct isn't it. Why risk your whole stack? 
The thing is any one game is largely luck so if the worst happens are you get called by a much better hand you could still win a game which if it were to continue you have a fair chance of losing anyway.
Also because it is a hyperturbo the effective stacks won't be 16+ Bb for very long so the chances are you won't run into a huge hand which means he can't just tighten up and wait for the top 5% of his range to be dealt.
Meanwhile, you are waiting for your huge hand to appear and when it does and has gotten fed up of your open shoving and the effective stack is now less because the blinds have gone up or one of you has lost some chips you can semi bluff shove and sit back while he calls with A4o and the like.

pbogz1114's picture
I dont' think its an instinct

I dont' think its an instinct at all. Also, I dont believe anything about poker is "largely luck". Just going all in so deep is in my eyes setting yourself up for failure. There is a few different ways to play all hands, but with 16BB's or more, shoving all in isn't correct.

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3onthego's picture
The outcome of any one HU

The outcome of any one HU hyperturbo is largely luck.
I just played a game where I induced a player with a pocket  fives  to call my Xr all in on the flop when I hit my king.
I then lost 4 consequetive preflop all ins with the best hand every time and consequently the game.
And had  I won the game it would have been largely because I had not been unlucky.
Poker is not like the lottery where each week you buy your one pound ticket and expect never to see it back again (like the rake).
There is hardly any luck involved in the lottery. The chances of getting lucky are remote. If fact they are so remote they are equal to the chances of being unlucky in the sense that you are as likely to die making the trip to buy the ticket as you are to win the lottery itself.
So when you play the lottery you expect to pay the rake for the thrill of having a gamble.
With poker you expect the outcome of each game to be based on luck unless you have a huge edge over your opponent which is usually never in mine and most people's case.
Playing HuSngs hypers is like playing a hole of golf in a hurricane with a similarly matched opponent. You just hit as best you can and hope. 
So I say shove and shove hard as often as you can argue it is plus ev. 
The strategy of sitting around waiting for your opponent to make a -ve play just isn't enough nowadays as the players are generally quite good.
 
 

skizzy00's picture
I think if you're looking at

I think if you're looking at it in those terms than you're missing something. How do the best players, the consisent winners do it? Of course there is heavy "luck" in any one game but that's what volume is about, finding small edges and exploiting them over very large samples where luck will eventually even out. To say everyone is too good now, there are no edges, I definitely think that's not true especially at lower stakes.

3onthego's picture
The problem with the lower

The problem with the lower stakes is that you never play anyone player enough to build up meaningfull stats post flop. You need thousands of hands to confidently interrept what he is doing on the turn and river. 
So the lower the stakes the more you are feeling your way through the dark. So you have to play the higher stakes to play regs. But the regs know what they are doing so where is the edge there?
And how is it, given the edges are so small, that the top reg can earn twice as much as the second to top reg so far this year.
Assuming he is twice as good or just running like a God this year there is an ethical consideration. Alot of his winnings come from players who run at ~48% at the high stakes but continue to play at these stakes which makes no sense unless they are laundering money.
So playing 'fish' at the low stakes is just gambling imo as you can never get the statistical confidence to play confidently post flop.
Playing mid stakes will allow you to play regs but they will most likely be as good or better than you.
And playing high stakes in a murky world to be swimming about in imo.
Nevertheless I just love the game.

pbogz1114's picture
A big part of becoming a

A big part of becoming a winning player is your outlook on the game. You need to know there are profitable edges and not just a bunch of luck. Yes, you will get unlucky ALOT in hypers, but that is why people play 30,000 games to win 60,000. Its all about the volume. Also, If you switch to turbos or even reg speeds the varience isn't as bad. Less action, but maybe you can build a stronger game at those lower speeds 

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3onthego's picture
That is sound advice. I

That is sound advice. I wonder just how thin these reply boxes get if the thread is long enough.